국가

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7/30 세인트 크로이, 미국령 버진 아일랜드 (3)

>> My name is Richard Augustus Schrader, Mr. Schrader. I went in the service in 1951, October. Basic training into Rogero, about 16 weeks, and then subsequently, some of my friends went to Korea. I went to Germany. I did a tour in Germany. I returned home in, what was it, ’53, around that time. Two years later, extended for 1 year, serving Losey Field 296 Infantry. 296, I believe, was in Losey Field, Puerto Rico. Volunteered to go to Korea. They sent me to Oklahoma. At Oklahoma, volunteered to go to Korea. They sent me back to Germany.

>> Well, why did you volunteer to go to Korea?

>> Well, the thing is that when we got back in … It was around 1953, and we met … Those that went to Germany met in Fort Dix. I think it was Fort Dix, New Jersey, and then later on, we caught the ship in New York, and there came the Korean troops. My buddy that trained with me, in basic training, and talking about war, and I’m young. I said, “Wow. Sounds good.” So I decided to extend it for 1 year and Puerto Rico. “I’ll check it out,” but then other thing too, I guess I was fortunate, boy, but a gentleman my first … was my captain commander in Germany in my first tour. And later on when I went, I think it was around ’54 or so, I then met him in Oklahoma, but he probably was a National Guard type when he came in and probably didn’t renew his category. Now he was a first sergeant. I ascended, and I went to. I right away recognized American, I said, “What are you doing? Why?” “I’m going to Korea.” “Okay.” A couple weeks later, I find myself and others back to Germany. I guess he was looking out for me. Right.

>> Well, because, you know, a lot of Americans died in Korea.

>> I do. Yes. Yes.

>> So God was looking out for you too. Well, let’s talk about some people you knew that did go to Korea.

>> Mm-hmm.

>> What did you … From what you heard in the news or what you read about, why do you even think the war was taking place in Korea?

>> Number one, I was quite young when I went in the army. I won’t say my years but quite young. And my brother served in World War II. So when he came home, even before he came home, my friends, myself, I grew up in a sugarcane estate. And we were practicing … I was young. Marching, stick my broomstick over my shoulder, up and down the estate. And so, Danny came home later on in the ’40s, and that was my motivation. These guys coming home. I remember distinctly when the war was over, my brother was serving in the Hawaiian island, and he came home that evening around 10, and one of these military trucks came into the estates and back up to our house, and here jumped a guy with his duffel bag and his uniform, and I remember wearing his cap and wearing his boots and things that I saw. So I was really conditioning and ready and really wanted to go join the service.

>> Joining the service, but what do you think was going on in Korea?

>> I already know there was … In Korea, I already knew there was a war in Korea. And my brother had served in the army, and I wanted to serve.

>> Even though you could maybe die?

>> That wasn’t in my mind. When you’re a young man and 16, that type doesn’t cross your mind, at least it didn’t mine.

>> Well, then you’re very, very fortunate, and God blessed you because I’ve met with many veterans who, at age 16, 17, 18, like you, they didn’t think they couldn’t possibility die in a war, but they saw a lot of their friends die.

>> Yes. Well, I served with a gentleman in Korea. A buddy of mine, same squad, Bumbebaho, Clarence, and he went to Korea. He made it through, but he was the first Virgin Islander to die in the war in Vietnam.

>> He went to Vietnam again after Korea?

>> Huh?

>> He went to Vietnam again after Korea?

>> After Korea, yes. He went to Korea. He was a real solider, gung ho. Bumbebaho. Yup.

>> And he came back and he shared some stories about the war?

>> I didn’t met him when he returned from the war. He lived in Saint Thomas, and then for a while, but I think he had moved and lived in the states and married and lived in the states. So I never saw him from the time when he first came back from Korea. Probably on the ship, yes. I saw him. But then later on, he reupped and went to the states, and later on went to Vietnam some years later, and then he died.

>> Were you born in Virgin Islands?

>> I was born right here in Saint Croix.

>> Mm. Tell us a little bit about, yeah, Saint Croix and being a Crucian, right?

>> Yes. Yes.

>> A Crucian. So you were born in 1930s.

>> Born in 1935.

>> 1935. I believe that the US granted citizenship to Virgin Islanders in 1927. So that was shortly after you were granted citizenship, yet you still wanted to salute the flag of a …

>> By the time I volunteered for the service we were citizens. Oh, sure. Citizenship came some time … I’ll have to check on that, but I know we were US citizens because the reason why I say this is that in the ’40s, when my brother and all those went to the war, there was a result of making an act by Congress and making the draft applicable to the Virgin Islands so that they can go. So this was in around ’43 or something like that. We were a citizen some years before. Yeah.

>> How do you feel about that? Meaning, what do you feel being part of the US territory?

>> Mm-hmm.

>> Do you feel like sometimes you’re second-class citizens?

>> Ah, yes. The way we’re treated. Number one, we can’t vote for president and things like that, so but all in all, I think we’re much better off being a citizen of United States than being a citizen of Denmark.

>> Really?

>> That’s my feeling.

>> Wow.

>> I suppose there’s a lot of improvement. Like I said, Virgin Islanders was actually serving the military World War I. Okay? A guy by the name of Ludwig Carrigan, he was in World War I because what people was migrating and going after their transfer from the Virgin Islands. And people, and even before people had went to the states and lived, you see? So he was experienced with the Virgin Islands, but he was in New York at the time, And he was in World War I. Here on the island after the transfer in 1917, the United States navy got young people to get into the service, make it possible for them to volunteer for the service to form the first Black naval band right here in Saint Croix. I’m talking about after the transfer. Right? I knew people that joined, I think, it was 1919, 1918. One of them comes to my mind because he was my friend, August McKay, and he died. He was 97 year old. Matter of fact, I wrote a story of him in one of my book. Another guy is Peter Tolung from here, and many more that was about … I had to be close, about 20, and also from Saint Thomas. You ever heard about Alton Adams? Do some research on him. He was the band leader. Matter of fact, his picture is in the museum in Washington D.C. I saw it.

>> You mentioned you wrote a book?

>> Books.

>> Wow.

>> Yeah.

>> What kind of books? I would love to read them.

>> Well, I first … Poetry is my first love. I’m a retired prison warden, and I started writing poetry 1 year before my retirement in 1984, and then, it turns into short stories, interviewing folks.

8/20 산후안, 푸에르토리코 국립묘지 (1)

– I’m your master of ceremonies during this event. We gather here today to present a flower wreath in honor and gratitude by… to the fallen soldiers of the Korean War buried and memorized in this cemetery, and to thanks the family members for their sacrifice. Please, stand up if you can. For the… in honor of our fallen heroes.
Please, be seated. We would like to thank the presence of Mr Glenn Power, deputy undersecretary of the. President of the Korean-American association of Puerto Rico. Member of the Remember 727 Organization for Korean War Veterans. Ms… President of 65th Infantry veterans. Member of the 65th Infantry divisions were engineers, family members. And now we have Mr. …. director of the Puerto Rican National Cemetery with a short message.
– I’m going to… I didn’t know I had to give a short message. But another things, uh, thanks him for actually taking time and making this possible. I’m very proud of the 65th Infantry … for their service in Korea, World War II and other places. They went to Panama, all the places that they served. And I was just talking to Mr. Glenn Powers about how all this as a society in Puerto Rico. We don’t give the honor to our servicemen. So, I think today with this short, small ceremony, we are honoring our Korean veterans and all that… year. And, also, the veterans that we have here and… all our respect. Thank you for being here. Thank you for what you’re doing. And welcome to our cemetery.
– Now we have Ms. Hannah Y Kim, member of the 727 Organization for Korean War Veterans.
– Gracias muchísimo, ah, por su hospitalidad y su dedicación de, para mis abuelitos. Yo soy, yo me alegro muchísimo porque yo estoy aquí porque ustedes fueron allí en Corea y yo estoy aquí con ustedes y mis abuelitos, quienes pasaron sacrificios últimos. Y no solo estoy aquí, estoy aquí con todos los coreanos, como presidente lee y representante de corea, porque no, ellos no pueden, ellos no pueden venir aquí, sí, y por eso yo estoy aquí para decir a ustedes gracias muchísimo, para todos. Y nosotros, coreanos americanos, como yo, y coreanos en Corea y coreanos en todo el mundo, nosotros disfrutamos libertad porque ustedes fueron en Corea y nosotros nunca, nunca olvidaremos. Gracias muchísimo, gracias, Javier, y gracias muchísimo.
– …and Mr. Javier Morales… Mr… to honor with your presence and… To place the flower wreath in honor to our… in the Korean War.
– …mis abuelitos. Gracias.
– Pueden ir todos, por favor.
– Sí.

8/20 산후안, 푸에르토리코 국립묘지 (2)

– I… War… of the island. I joined the army when I was 23 years old. That time, I had my training here in Puerto Rico and I was in all the places throughout the island serving on the World War II. There… Puerto Rico to South Africa, North Africa and then to Germany. In the… there wasn’t so much to do there, just clean pockets of the Germans. You know? Germans… clean the pockets of. From there I return to the island, then I, uh, I was out of the army. Then I went to study because before I had only eighth grade… the country. And the… I coursed my high school in another town in the center of the island called Barranquitas, … I had my high school diploma and then I moved to the nearest city of Puerto Rico. From there, I graduated and I went to the, to teach in Puerto Rican schools of Puerto Rico. But since then, I have my sedentary done and then out of… They happen to be I didn’t know about, but I was in the reserve when this… 1996 went to Korea. I was called into the field. I was sent to Korea. So, there, I fought in Korea. I was wounded in Korea. I returned to the streets and I was… help because… and I was sent to Germany to serve for 23 years. I was sent to… I served there one year. At that time, I had two sons, they were out of the… same place they died there. That’s the only thing that I will regret all my life. So, I know what the father and mother know and think about their son going to war. So, I went to war and my father said, “It’s time to war”. So, that’s life, what can I say? I am grateful to God, grateful to people that are around me now. People that are… there… Right now I’m 95-and-a-half years old and I still…
My only daughter died two months ago. One month back. And she comes here to be buried here. Today and talk to people here… So, I’m glad I don’t die. I don’t want to die, but… in the… another time… somebody will follow you. I’m very grateful, and thank you, people, for being here and taking care of us, and say hello to us and appreciate what we did in Korea. You probably know that… Korea… What I saw there and the people there. What the people did to us, I appreciate it very much. …and to people… not only myself, we were 19 of us, right? And we appreciate it… Korea. We appreciate that. Thank you again. I went to the country, how it was. Wartime. Everything destroyed. Very dead people. People dying by me. Many things. Very hard for me to tell, very hard to me to tell things like that. It’s another fight. No, no. The only thing I remember was I was there in … And walked all the way down to Seoul. And we fought and that was it. Until I was wounded and taken to home. I had no time to see the country or talk to the people in the country, meet the people in the country, nothing whatsoever. Which now I am very happy to… know the people. The Korean people now. I really appreciate it. And to say to other people what the Korean people were at that time and the way they did… Korea… this today. It’s very different. Very different. But I…
– Do you remember the name of the battle?
– No, we didn’t have time to that. We fought all the way through and the enemy was upon us. Nothing done. You’re fighting, fire. That was that. Bad. Terrible. I say that there should be no wars. Because everything… When there is a war, everything is destroyed. Including the people. Everything is destroyed. The city. The… Everything is destroyed. I hope… our island Puerto Rico for United States. I want to be clear…
– You too?
– I thank the Korean people, because when I visited there, the way they treated me or the people that went there. Good. Nice. And they showed us the way Korean is today… The country of Korea is today… Nothing… So, I, uh… I feel that when I lived in Korea. Little… The people of Korea… for Korea…

8/20 산후안, 푸에르토리코 국립묘지 (3)

– To the cemetery,
what would you think?
– I want to tell you something.
… what I say. I’m going
to tell you something, you know.
– Okay.
– I joined the Army in 1940.
I was 17 years old.
I trained in Tortuguero, Puerto Rico.
Then went to Fort Neal, West Virginia.
From Virginia, we went to North Africa.
And so we headed. We landed there
with 40 dead because we had a kennel.
Because we had a coronel who don’t believe
that puertoricans were their friends.
He went there and kill it… Somebody killed it.
I said everyone in North Africa, they all went to,
uhm… Germany.
Yeah, and I always tell
… about 10.000 prisoners.
… The coronel called, he used to be a commander.
So I came back to Puerto Rico and stayed here.
Then, they planned the work, the maneuver…
Porter maneuver to certificate
that it was the best way to…
That’s what they said, to Korea…
They fought everything. so, myself was
the driver of Mayor General Harris,
so we left him in here, in Puerto Rico.
1950… December, 1950. So we went
in the Marine links, about 16.000 soldiers.
so we land in Busan. So, at the next day, we …
fight in the front, so I used to be the driver
and bodyguard from Coronel Harris.
So, I had a… with Coronel Harris.
So, one day, General McArthur stopped us himself
and he told to General Harris,
“you have to go to that hill
and throw the people in there.”
I remember that.
And General Harris said,
“no, my people has to come back to me, now.
They’re going to rest.”
So, I thought, uhm… He was, you know,
disobeying an order from a Mayor, a General,
he was a Coronel. So, well he left him over there,
So, I know we have a hook for,… in spanish and english.
So, we have everything that the guys have said.
That’s to believe. Because I spente 11 moths in there
with the Coronel and a mission… heave, we go.
I never really thought…
The day the guy walked in the kitchen,
the Admiral used to chew for…
And in the showers, the showers came down from the hill.
We didn’t know it came from the hill.
He said “my girl is washing there, so…”
So, I went down… three pieces of…, you know,
because I knew everything was alright.
The ’65 is one of the best in the world
I know, because I used to be the driver
for Mayor Coronel Harris. We sailed in maneuver.
We were five rocks from…
Then we left for…
And one of the guys said “load the arms”
and one guy from my hometown, they got a .45.
And when you load the .45, it fires a shot…
General Cordero, he was a volunteer for…
And that’s the way, if you are very sick…
I really think so, because the puertorican who
sailed there,… sleeping back, about 20 degrees.
Also, in North Africa, … we slept in there,
the valley… at 32 degrees.
We had to go to the river,
That’s the way…
I used to go with General Harris,
I uses to be the driver.
– But what do you remember?
– I remember the day.
– What did you feel?
– One day, he went to… We were below that,
everything, we didn’t know that they were hiding.
And one morning we called, so they came down
when we started the kitchen, you know, boiling eggs, the breakfast.
And they called out:
“Everybody! I have a job for our company,
every one of you have to kill seven guys.”
– Oh.
– Wow.
– That’s all I have to say. My brother,
he was a policeman, he.
So, we had so many points and they gave me
the break and sent me first.
Yeah, because, I mean…
The korean, yeah. We fought along that people,
you know, together. And they did.
They had this little sack and that’s where.
– Did you volunteer to fight for Korea?
– No, because I used to be a driver
for the Army, Fort Maneuver.
– Yeah, but did you volunteer to be the driver?
– Yeah.
– Volunteer?
– Yeah.
– Why? Why.
– Because I said “fine”, a day that I went to…
No, I forgot the General, to drive to Korea.
they said four days, and they selected me
to be the driver.
They were looking for a man to follow him,
the General.
Well, I’m telling you,
the worst would be the war.
Because I had to be the devil or the saint.
For example, I’m in Puerto Rico, what happens now?
They say I can’t walk, you know why?
Because that guy up there, he sees everything.
I’m alive because my mother,
she promised for me three times.
Three times. I’m alive because of her.
Look, …
but that one is the one that kept me alive.
Don’t worry. I’m 93 years old. Suffer? Suffer.
– The south korean people. Message.
– Korean people.
The korean people were, for me, the best people in the world.
Because I was with them, fought beside them.
We went over there, they were over there.
They give everything that people,
I remember that.
The people that were over there were…
I’d like to go back over there,
because they treat puertoricans like.
A friend of mine, he went.

8/20 산후안, 푸에르토리코 국립묘지 (4)

– …Cardónez. About the battles in Korea, I only remember that I was a lifer man, I was, all the time– Most of the times in different lines. When we arrived in Korea with the 63rd Infantry, that was the 6th battalion of the Infantry regiment. And we arrived in Korea on 1 October 1950. So we started going in patrols, because by that time [inaudible] elements, and probably the worst one when China came into the war. There were too many Chinese for us. And I remember that we were, I mean, the first division in the U.S., it was in the [inaudible] war. Is that right?
– Yes.
– So it was November, 1950 when China entered into the war, and the first thing they were trying to do was to finish with the Marines that were taking care of the reservoirs. So, it was winter, 1950. The water was up here, about our knees, and the Chines almost destroyed the Marine division, and the 63rd Infantry were holding the Chinese to help the Marines get out of the– and go to the port of [inaudible] in Korea. So…
– And you were part of that?
– Yeah. The 65th Infantry regiment was the last unit left in North Korea during the US [inaudible] in 1950, and — when we got into the ships that were about 15 or 20 miles in the sea, our regiment put a lot of dynamite in the port, and as soon as we left, they destroyed the [inaudible] in order for the Chinese to use any– for the moment. We were taking to Pusan– everybody was taking to Pusan. And– it was– we went into the ships, it was on 24 December 1950, Christmas time. And we had– they gave us supper on the ship, so we’ve been more– removing our clothes, and when we’re taking into the ships, we were ordered to take our clothes, and they gave us clean ones, clean clothing. So, after taking us to Pusan, they assigned us positions 12 or 15 miles at the North of Pusan. The January 1, 1951, I was assigned to this [inaudible] the 3rd Infantry division. When I stayed for 6 months– July, the same year, I think, 1951, I went back to my company, the Infantry division which was in the front. So, in September, 1951, we were attacking the hill at the west of Ch’orwon, there are hills at the west of Ch’orwon. Ch’orwon is about 20 miles from the parallel, up. And– with the [inaudible], the Chinese were all around, and they were attacking us with urgent. And it was raining like hell. It was in September. And I was trying to– we received orders to leave the place. I was assigned [inaudible] one of that. I don’t think the North Koreans are [inaudible]
– On 18 September 1951, we were capturing one of the hills. As I told you, it was raining like hell, and the artillery, the Chinese artillery all the time, and we were ordered to go back and leave our place. So, there were 12 comrades there already, and I was assigned to carry one of them out. When I was taking care of my comrade, I was hit in the back by Chinese artillery, and I have to leave him, to leave the dead man I was carrying. So, I was taken back to the line, to the resting line, and I was taken to some doctor, and — by that time, I had spent almost 14 months in Korea. And I never went back to the front line. They continued to [inaudible] to take me out of the front lines. So, I entered the Army for three years to volunteer. I can tell you that when I graduated from High-school in my hometown, I entered to work in a drugstore. And on 20 June 1950, I entered to volunteer in the Army to study for officer at the canals in Panama. Five days later, the North Korea, at that time, South Korea, and we were sent to the canal zone, and it was basic training. And when we finished the training, the company commander asked me that they wanted me to stay at the pharmacy in Panama, and I said, “No, I want to go with the Japanese.” So I went volunteering to Korea. I went volunteering in the Army, and volunteering to Korea.
– Why?
– Because at that time, I was 20 years old, and I liked adventures, I liked risky scenes.
– But you could’ve risked your life.
– That was something included in the package. So, I studied three years in the Army, and– get my [inaudible] studying at the University of Puerto Rico. I worked for the government for 23 years, and at the four years studying makes 27, and three years in the Army makes 30. “It’s time to get out of the government.” So, in 1881, I had been working by myself as a lawyer.
– Yes. One more question because you said that you wanted to risk your life for adventure, and you could die. But here, you’re at the cemetery, with comrades who did die. What do you think when you come here?
– Well, we come here because we’re alive to honor them with our visit here. And we do the best we can to have this place as it is.
– Are you glad that you didn’t die, though? I am, I’m glad.
– I’m glad. I’m glad I’m alive. And I– when I saw Korea last September, it was like a miracle because– Korea was all destroyed, and now they have this beautiful country, beautiful Seoul, the capital. And nice people everywhere and I’d like to do there again. Sometime, I will.
– Soon.
– It was nice to have you here, and I hope you enjoy your stay in Puerto Rico.
– Thank you so much.

8/20 산후안, 푸에르토리코 국립묘지 (5)

[ININTELIGIBLE]
– My name is Javier Angel Morales. I am the past president of the 65th Infantry Veterans Association. I served for about 5 years. Our organization [inaudible]. And they were the ones who organized this whole association in 1936. At one time we had numbers of about 500 members. Now they only have about 150. They had to open up the association to allow veterans from other conflicts or wars to become members, because we want to continue the legacy that the 65th infantry gave to Puerto Rico. As to the Borinqueneers, there was a voluntary army, first [—] in 1917. They were all voluntary. They didn’t have to be drafted. The draft came in World War II. After World War II then came Korea. During the Korean War there were a lot of draftees. I could relate to some of the stories given to me by the different veterans, who were in smaller towns, but when they heard that there was a truck coming picking up those that would like to join the service, they jumped on the truck and were taken to [—-]. Some of them… one person told me that it was the fourth time he was trying to get in the truck, but they turned him down because his age was not the legal age to be drafted. [inaudible]. The regiment was composed of veterans that were from World War I and II. They had been volunteers and they were ready to retire, but they were asked to stay so they could train the new recruits, so most of them did that. That’s why I think the regiment was so…
– Experienced?
– So experienced during the first years of the war, that they were labeled [—-].
– How many served and how many suffered [—-]?
– The count that I have from Puerto Rico was about 63,000. Out of those 63,000, there were 2,700 that were wounded in action. There were about 740 that were killed in action, and out of those 740, there were 122 that were missing. Currently I think there’s about 110 or 112 that are still missing in action. And as they find their bodies or they’re able to identify them, they are added to the Wall of Remembrance in San Juan.
– So, if there’s… I know the 65th earned the congressional gold medal.
– Yes.
– Of course I’m partial, I know they deserved it, but not everybody knows. So, why?
– Okay. The regiment was very successful. They had a maneuver in Vieques called Portrex. They went against the best unit from the United States [——], and they were able to repel that invasion. So that stayed in the mind of Colonel Harris, and when Colonel Harris was in Korea, they asked him that they needed an infantry unit to be able to go to Korea because they were running short. So he said, “Well, I had a regiment I’d like to bring here.” and he mentioned the 65th infantry regiment. But they were… the high brass was very reluctant, because one of the things they said is, “But they never fought during World War I.” Only one battalion fought, which was the 3rd battalion. There were two casualties. And during World War II, they were mainly to secure… or security, of the different bases, of the different places in the Caribbean and in Europe. During the Korean War they were an infantry regiment, and they were well prepared because, like I mentioned before, a lot of them were veterans from World War II. They had experience, they had training necessary to be in battle. And so, that training went on to the new recruits that came in. When they got to Korea, they were instrumental in helping the 1st [—] division exit from the surrounding by the Chinese. Although the Chinese were pushing us back into the sea, the 65th regiment was the last unit to disembark, or to get on the boats, because they were the last ones that were safeguarding the back of all the other soldiers.
– Two last very simple questions. One is, you’re not even a Korean War veteran, why do you care about them so much? Okay? So that’s one. Two, tell the Korean people why they shouldn’t forget.
– When I was in the service, I was serving in Germany, and one of my fellow compatriots mentioned the 65th infantry. I never knew anything about the 65th. I wasn’t interested because I just wanted to serve my two years and leave. When I retired at 60, there was another instance, where I was in Connecticut and I overheard somebody say, “The 65th? They didn’t do anything right.” And that kind of stayed on my mind. I said, “I have to find out about that.” So, when I retired at 60, I said, “I need to go to Puerto Rico, because I want to see Puerto Rico.” [——–], and I did that. But before that, I told my wife and she started crying, and I said, “What’s the problem?” She says, “Well, you’re going to get old on me, and you’re going to die.” And I said… that scared me, and I said, “No, no, no. I have to do something.” So I came to Puerto Rico. Six months I went around the island. This time my brother was calling me. He says, “Look, I need you to help me.” And I said, “Help you what?” He said, “I need you to help me find veterans that were wounded, because I want to start an organization in Puerto Rico called The Purple Heart Organization, to be able to recruit and have a chapter, a register in the national Purple Heart Hall of Honor.” And I said, “Well, I’ll see what I can do.” Meantime, the president of the 65th infantry association was after me telling me the same thing, “Look, I need your help. You’re the youngest, and I need to make sure people don’t forget this organization.”
– So, to the Korean people, why should they not forget the Borinqueneers?
– To the Korean people, first of all I want to thank them very much, because I had the opportunity to go to Korea, and the 65th infantry was very instrumental in safeguarding the country. They were very instrumental in making sure that democracy was installed in Korea. They were very happy to be able to defend your country. A lot of them gave their rights [?], they shed the blood, and they shed the tears. But they did it for a purpose. They wanted you to be happy, your generations in the future to be happy, to be able to live in democracy. And so, the sacrifice that was made by the 65th infantry regiment was not done in vain, your country has progressed quite a bit, your people are very nice, and we really appreciate the way you think about us, the Puerto Ricans and the 65th infantry regiment.

8/20 산후안, 푸에르토리코 시내 (1)

– We were fighting in Korea. They’re doing a Korean Wonsan. The city’s infantry saved the American regiment. The Marine. For when the… came, they had to from Hungnam to… road. To go to the way because there were too many Chinese. They had to go the other way. They stopped the Chinese… the American gave into the war.
– Who fought in the, uhm, Hungnam evacuation?
– ¿A dónde?
– Fue que en el 50.
– ¿En el 50?
– …tuvo que agarrarle.
– En el 50 estaba allá.
– I went in 1951 until 1953. I went to the Geochang course. I go to different companies. I was the battalion company. Company I, second platoon, second squad. In Korea. Everynight… And I was the Army… with my company. Combat payment. Make the patrool everynight in Korea. Papas… She was my. Too much mine. Explosion.
– ¿Usted fue un policía militar?
– I was infantry over there.
– ¿Qué recuerda?
– ¿Qué recuerdo, qué recuerdo de allá? I was in the attack in… hills. Maybe you don’t remember.
– No.
– In Kelly mountain of Kelly hill. We fight over there in the mountain for three battalions. First battalion, second battalion and third battalion. First battalion about all the… battalion. Not all complete. Too much died. Killed. Too much killed over there in the mountain, and the second battalion, killed too. And the third battalion,… my captain said, “Two more dead, two more injuries.” So, we go to the mountain down.
– ¿Qué es el nombre de la batalla?
– Kelly hill. Three battalion. Right over there. – ¿Dónde?
– ¿Dónde fue esta batalla?
– En Corea.
– Sí, sí, sí, pero ¿el sur o no?
– I don’t remember the… You know. I was a debutant.
– Sí, sí, sí.
– In Kelly hill. The mountain is Kelly hill. The mountain.
– Korea Hills? Kelly?
– Kelly hill.
– Kelly hill. K-E-L-L-Y.
– Kelly hill.
– Kelly?
– K-E-L-L-Y.
– Kelly hills.
– Kelly hills.
– Yo estudiaré. ¿Sí?
– Sí, sí, sí. Y ¿qué, qué piensa usted de regimiento 65? De la legacía del 65.
– 65 pelió mucho allá en Corea y batalló mucho allá, mucho, batalló mucho.
– Muchísimo, ¿no?
– Mucho, muchísimo.
– ¿Por qué?
– I don’t know. The enemy took…
– ¿Cómo se llama? El terreno.
– Sí, sí, sí.
– El terreno. The mountain, the land, everything. The enemy took the…
– ¿Ustedes piensan que el general…?
– El general Cordero.
– ¿Qué?
– General Cordero nos metió allá.
– ¿Cordero?
– Cordero. Sí. General Cordero, eh…
– Three battalions. He make one… meeting in the yard over there. You can take the mountain in… You can take it. The mountain, the… You can take it. …the mountain. What? Okay. We go over there. No good. Too much dead. Too much injured. Too much killed. In the mountain, Kelly was the… Mongolian. Big one. The Mongolian and Chinese and Korean. North Korea stays over there too.
– Pero el regimiento fue segregado, ¿no?
– When we go back from the mountain the other day. We’re going to take the low weapon in the mountain. Too much weapon. And looking at the injured, the dead, too much people. Too much soldiers dead.
– Pero, pero el regimiento 65 solo, solo puertorriqueños, ¿no?
– Puertorriqueños, sí.
– Sí.
– Eh, después más tarde nos…
Attachment American soldiers in different company, Puerto Rico. Over there in Korea. The company… in different company attached the captain, the lieutenant to take out the…
– …eh, esto de, ¿cómo se llama? De que… los que… que venían de allá.
– Officer, American officer, attaching different companies. Attached my company, one American captain, I don’t remember now the name, he not believed me Puerto Rico. The American don’t believe me. The American captain don’t believe I’m Puerto Rico. When he go to the patrol and the scout take… the captain over here, this way. And the captain, I remember, because the captain said, “No, you have it the wrong way!” Company over here, this way. I don’t know. He walked to the patrol to the recognizant patrol, the enemy is approaching towards mine. I’m a soldier… Sergeant Rodríguez from… Puerto Rico. He exploded dead to the mine because the place is too much mine, you know? I remember the… I pictured it in my mind.
– Guao.
– Yeah, every…

8/20 산후안, 푸에르토리코 시내 (2)

[habla en coreano]
– Poema, un poema dedicado a las mamás de quienes tienen…
– Hijos.
– …hijos que participaron en la guerra.
– En la guerra.
– Sí.
– Sí. Ya.
– Anita me pidió que recitara esta poesía, yo se la regalé a ella y le voy a regalar también el libro que escribió mi mamá cuando yo estaba, eh, de poesías, ella escribió. Pero la primera poesía que está en este libro es la que dedicó a todas las madres que tenían los, los hijos en la guerra y esta se la dedico a mi querida nieta Anita con, de Corea de su abuelo boricua Josué.
– Gracias.
– Dice mi mamá de la siguiente manera, una plegaria que ella compuso en forma de poesía pidiéndole al Señor que preservara mi vida y que no permitiera que yo, con mi arma de reglamento, matara a ningún semejante y decía ella de la siguiente manera: “Señor, ¿qué te daré si me traes a mi hijo, Señor? Que se han llevado a la guerra maldita, aquel infierno. Señor, ¿qué te daré? Si nada tengo, pero tú eres bueno, Señor, y guardarás su vida. Señor, ¿qué te daré? Yo nada tengo que te pueda ofrecer por su pronto regreso. Señor, ¿qué te daré? Si mi alma está triste, muy triste, y nada soy y nada puedo. Por las noches, Señor, sin querer me desvelo, por el día, Señor, al infinito vuela mi pensamiento para pedirte, Señor, que cuides a mi hijo, que está lejos, muy lejos. Señor, yo le enseñé a mi hijo las sublimes palabras de tu santo evangelio, donde el amor nos une en vínculo perfecto, haciendo una familia de este gran universo, que los… Señor, eran sus hermanos buenos, la raza amarilla, los blancos y los negros, sin distinción ninguna, teníamos un padre bueno y ese padre, señor, eras tú, amante y sempiterno, que tú eras padre amoroso, sublime y tan tierno que, por salvar al mundo, enviaste de su gloria a Jesús, el, el Dios, el, el unigénito. Señor, se han llevado a mi hijo, a mi hijo, Señor, que es amante y muy bueno, para enseñarle, Señor, a matar a sus buenos hermanos de este gran universo. Señor, mira mi angustia y oye mi ruego, permite que mi hijo, Señor, que es tan bueno, no use su espada para matar a su hermano, el cual tú has hecho. Señor, permite que allí tú estés en medio de ellos, protégele sus vidas, pues, son tus hijos, cuida de ellos, en ti yo espero, únelos con tu amor inmenso y del campo de batalla, Señor, que salgan ellos para proclamar el amor de tu santo evangelio. Señor, yo te imploro que cuides a mi hijo y también te pido, Señor, que cuides de aquellos que dicen que son malos, pero yo no lo creo, ellos tienen sus madres, que llevan en sus pechos el amor de sus hijos y el corazón deshecho. Yo sé, Señor, que tú los amas como amas a los nuestros, son tus hijos, Señor, unos y otros, tú eres nuestro padre y padre de ellos. Señor, haz un milagro, yo nada te ofrezco, pues, nada tengo, pero, Señor, haz un milagro, trae la paz al universo, en cambio, las madres de este mundo te ofrecemos lavar, no ya tus pies, sino todo tu cuerpo con lágrimas cristalinas que salen a raudales de nuestros vellos. Dios les bendiga.

8/20 산후안, 푸에르토리코 시내 (3)

– Pero mis tíos fueron a pelear también y donde yo peleé, pelearon ellos, uno de ellos murió en mis brazos, lo enterré y regresé de nuevo, pero yo sé lo que es un hijo cuando está guerreando, cuando se manda a sitios a pelear, donde uno ha estado pasando… Y pasando malos tragos en la guerra. Así que yo también siento como padre y como hijo, siento como hijo porque sé lo que sintió mi madre, sintió mi padre cuando yo partí.
– No.
– Y nosotros, nosotros apreciamos todo el esfuerzo que hacen por nosotros, somos, fuimos soldados y somos soldados porque el soldado una vez sigue siendo soldado todavía, pero siempre hay alma.
– Sí.
. Hay agradecimiento y amor. Okay.
– Y gracias muchísimo, padre.
– And there’s a picture…

8/20 산후안, 푸에르토리코 시내 (5)

– Mi nombre es Carlos Josué González Mercado. Todo el mundo, las amistades y mi familia me dicen Josué porque mi papá se llamaba Carlos. Y antes de yo ir a Corea, trabajaba con la autoridad de Energía Eléctrica, y estaba a cargo del pueblo de Río Grande. En aquella época los pueblitos eran pequeños. Río Grande tenía 400 abogados y yo estaba solito a cargo de ese pueblo, pero empezó la guerra de Corea y, a pesar de que ya yo tenía 23 años, fui llamado obligadamente a servir en el ejército de los Estados Unidos. Recibimos entrenamiento en el campamento de Tortuguero en Vega Baja. Y a los 3 meses de recibir el entrenamiento zarpamos para Corea en un barco que se llamaba Sargent… Viajamos de aquí a Panamá. Cruzamos el Canal de Panamá. Llegamos a California. De California seguimos a Hawái. De Hawái llegamos a Japón. De Japón definitivamente llegamos a Corea un mes después. Salimos de aquí viernes santo de 1951. En Corea me asignaron al 65 de infantería como uno de los primeros refuerzos que fueron al 65. Había otros tres regimientos americanos, dos regimientos más americanos. Era el 7 y el 15, pero el único regimiento que era de puertorriqueños solamente era 65. Era un regimiento segregado de solamente puertorriqueños. Bien, naturalmente, nos unificó más como pueblo, como amigos, como compañeros, porque al fallecer uno nos dolía a todos. Y fue un año completo en que estuvo en la guerra de Corea. Si ustedes me permiten dar un testimonio de la grandeza del Señor. Mi mamá, cuando yo fui a Corea, hizo una plegaria pidiéndole al señor que no permitiera que yo con mi arma de reglamento matara a ningún semejante mío, una petición que para cualquiera es imposible porque a nosotros nos adiestraron para matar, para matar gente, y pedirle a Dios que un hombre que lo mandan a matar gente no mate a nadie eso es una escala muy alta. Ella también le pidió que preservara mi vida. Y durante ese año que yo estuve en Corea, al yo llegar, perdóname, al yo llegar a Corea, el comandante de la compañía donde yo estaba, vio mi récord y decía que yo era lineman, procurador de líneas, que tiraba líneas, conectaba teléfonos, y hacía instalaciones, y hacía bregar con los switchmodes. Y dijo al sargento: “Este es el hombre que necesitamos para conectar los teléfonos de la compañía de regimiento”. Y mi trabajo en Corea, donde un año, por un año fue conectar teléfonos y operar swichtmodes. Por lo tanto, mi mamá no puede testificar si yo maté a nadie, pero yo sí puedo testificar eso porque debido a ese trabajo que tenía, de mi rifle no salió ni un solo tiro, o sea que no pude haber matado a nadie. Y hay que darle gracias a Dios. Por esa oración de mi mamá que le pidió a Dios eso, y Dios oye a los corazones contritos y humillados que se doblegan ante… Por eso yo donde quiera que voy, y me preguntan, doy mi testimonio de la grandeza de Dios que me permitió regresar con vida sin tener que matar a nadie y servir en el ejército sin tener que cometer ese roll.
– Sí.
– Dios me los bendiga.
– Sí, sí. Gracias, gracias… Su Abuelo es un pastor, ¿no?
– Mi papá.
– Papá. Yo también.
– Este es mi papá, mi mamá, 9 hermanos.
– Oh, my God! 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9?
– We were 10, but one died very old.
– Where are you?
– I am the 3rd one. That’s the oldest, 2nd and the 3rd. This is 4th, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9.
– Wow, bueno, el señor da a su familia muchos, muchos…
– Todos, toda la familia sirve al señor, toda la familia. Mi papá y mi mamá nos enseñaron a amar a Cristo por…
– Gracias.
– Esta fotografía fue tomada cuando mi papá y mi mamá cumplieron 60 años de casados.
– Wow, 60 años. Gracias muchísimo.
– Dios la bendiga.
[HABLAN EN COREANO].
Thank you.
[HABLAN EN COREANO].
– …
[HABLAN EN COREANO].
– Which battle did you fight?
– … una pelea, ¿verdad? Estaba encargado solamente de…
– No, no.

8/20 산후안, 푸에르토리코 시내 (6)

– My name is Carlos Pena Lozano. Okay. I went to Korea in 1951. I landed in Incheon through Yokohama on a small boat. We have sweet water at [—-] and saltwater. And we were to Incheon. The port of Incheon was in flames. I was a kid. 17 years old. I guess most of the kids in this island joined the army on those days because [—-], and it was showed to the world. So we went to the [—-], up on the mountains. I got wounded there. I shot two times. I [—-] the [—] river, and we got frozen. [—-] the Chinese. And you know, they started firing at us and everybody ran. But after that, a few months later, I was shot in [—-]. They said I was dead because I dropped in a creek, a frozen creek. The next day, a Korean peasant saw me and I was almost dead. They took me on a helicopter to Gimpo, to our base. I found out later that the Puerto Ricans operated me, and from there on, I was sent to Japan for recovery and to the States. Later on I ended up on Panama, and I got discharged.
– I heard that you went back to Korea last year.
– Oh, yes. Yes. I would like to thank the people of Korea, the government, all the people there that treated us like, you know… I don’t know if we deserve that kind of treatment. Even my wife cried the day all those Korean officials came to greet us, and I was never treated better in my life anywhere like in South Korea. People are marvelous. I guess [—-].
– Well, you should’ve been treated like that, because we, the Korean people, are here because you fought there, you know? I wouldn’t be here if you didn’t fight there.
– I’d also like to thank [—-], real Korean people that, you know… [—–]. We never had that recognition we had, you know.
– Well, you should be proud.
– Oh, yes, I was proud that I went to South Korea and I met nice people.
– Thank you so much.
– I guess everybody in the 65th infantry regiment have all the Koreans in our hearts. Yes.
– Thank you. That’s so sweet.
– The first thing that comes to mind.
– The people. The people.
– And what kind of people are they?
– Fantastic. They are nice people. Nice, nice. I guess that every time that I travel and go anywhere, people would do… [——] in South Korea. I’m talking for all the Puerto Ricans that have gone there, and I guess everybody that’d been there, so it’s your people. Really good.

8/20 산후안, 푸에르토리코 시내 (7)

– 2004, ¿no?
– Un poco…
– Más alto.
– Sí.
-Doménico Adorno.
– Sí, cuando, cuando, ¿participaron en la guerra?
– Nací en el pueblo de Trujillo Alto. A los 21 años fui reclutado por el ejército. Me enviaron a su país, Corea. No tengo buenos recuerdos. LO que tengo es un sentimiento porque muchos han ido ahora y dicen que Corea está muy pero muy alertada, muy avanzada, pero todavía en mi vida no capto, todavía yo tengo a Corea de 66 años atrás. Yo estuve en Chon todo el tiempo. Estuve en una oficina del tercer batallón. La oficina pertenecía al 65 de infantería. Estaba localizada en una universidad que había sido destruida por los americanos para sacar al enemigo, a los coreanos… metidos. Tuvieron que bombardear ese edificio. En ese edificio había partes que se podían usar, y ahí estaba yo en una oficina. Yo estuve 13 meses, un año y un mes. Mi trabajo allí era que me enviaban el informe, informe todas las mañanas de los muertos, de los desaparecidos, de los heridos durante la noche del cuerpo del 65 de infantería. Había mucho conocido mío. Todos eran puertorriqueños. Para mí era un dolor, aunque no los conociera físicamente, pero eran mis compatriotas. Eso es un dolor que llevo, ¿entiendes? Porque todavía conozco descendientes, descendientes de esos muchachos que perdieron la vida allí. Cada vez que los veo me traslado a Corea. Esa es la parte primordial del viaje a Corea. Bien, tengo otros recuerdos mucho más tristes del pueblo coreano.
– ¿Visitó a Corea el año pasado?
– No.
– ¿No?
– No, voy a visitarla.
– ¿Vas, vas visitar el mes de septiembre?
– Sí.
– Ah, ¡ok! Sí.
– Pues aquel tiempo ustedes no habían nacido.
– Sí, sí, sí.
– Fue un tiempo triste para Corea. La guerra destruyó la manufactura, destruyó la agricultura, y Corea vive… de la agricultura, de la pesca, bueno. Recuerdo, por la tarde cuando yo salía de la oficina, se había todo empolvado porque los edificios son hechos de un material, no recuerdo ahora, que es como tiza. Salía afuera. Había un, una reja para no entrar al edificio donde estaba la oficina. Nosotros pegábamos allí… y eso… triste ver cómo las mamás…
[HABLAN EN COREANO].
– Sí, sí, sí.
– Lloraban pidiendo comida, y muchas veces hacían cosas indebidas, cosas indebidas con sus hijos. Yo tengo mis hijas ahora, mi nieta, y eso me lleva, ver un pueblo destruido físicamente…
– Sí.
– Y moralmente.
– Sí, pero ahora es muy…
– Eso es distinto, pero yo no lo he visto.
– Sí. Gracias.

8/20 산후안, 푸에르토리코 시내 (8)

– My name is Domingo Pelliciel. I was in Korea in 1951.
– Look at me, look at me.
– Not the camera? Oka, my name is Domingo Pelliciel Febles, and I was in Korea in 1951. When I went to Korea I was 21 years old. We landed in Incheon. In Incheon, the ship [—-] stayed out the [—-], and then we go out through [—-], down to the small landing boat to the shore. From there, we went into the train. That train had [——]. There were two trains, one go in front and one in the back. So we went to Seoul. From Seoul we went to the frontline. [—-]. I was witrh the 63rd infantry regiment [—-], rifle man. And in Korea, I thought that was in the end of my life. I was in combat over there, with the infantry, and [—-], one time I was on patrol, and then the American airplane was bombing the Chinese, and then they thought that we were North Korean or Chinese, and they came to us. To bomb us. So I have a piece of cloth. This color. Yellow. And red. So the captain said, “Open the cloth.” So I opened it and the plane went out, because that showed that we were friendly, we were no enemy. So they went out. Another time, while I was in Korea, I was on [——], I saw a lot of people moving in the back, but to [—-], so I took a hand grenade to throw the hand grenade, and behind me there was a piece of… maybe a tree, and it my hand. So they hand grenade went out, so [—-] in the hole, so I jumped inside the hole. I jump, and then… If I stay up, my face would’ve disappeared from my body. One time, I was doing a hole up on the hill, and then, when I was doing the hole, there was snow, and the snow jumped, and the Chinese… I don’t know if they were Chinese or North Korean, they were watching me with binoculars. And then… I hear the mortar come to me, and I started to run so I go in the ground and start rolling like a boulder down the hill, so thank God. If I stayed up, they’d keep shooting me, but when they see me falling through the ground they stopped shooting. One time also I was with my friend, who was laying a barbed wire, and then the wire hit the fray, when you hit the fray it lights up, and the wire hit the fray, and the Chinese, Chinese or North Korean, I don’t know, they were looking and started shooting with the mortar, and my friend was wounded in the back. So thank God there was a hole in front of me. I jumped in the hole and they shoot my friend like 3 or 4 times. My friend was my Corporal. He was with a Korean soldier, a Korean company. They called it rock, right? Yeah, with a Korean company. So we had to translate from Korean to English, so we had Korean in the company.
– You remember his name?
– [—–].
– Amazing that you can remember them. Did you ever meet them?
– No, no.
– Maybe…You’re going to go to Korea next month, maybe you could find them.
– Maybe I find them. Maybe they’re dead right now. Maybe. who knows.
– No, maybe not!
– It was many years ago. It was 1951.
– That would be wonderful if you could find them.
– One time we were on patrol, and we walked, walked, walked, walked, and then the guy said, “[—-] we have to find the company. Please go back to the company.” So the… I’ll say the enemy, because I don’t know if they were Korean or Chinese. They were waiting for us. So this is the gate. we’re walking, so we stop over here and we say, “let’s go back.” and they started shooting with machine guns. They’re waiting for us to be right in front of the machine gun to start shooting.
– Did you get wounded?
– No, thank God I didn’t. Thank God, because my mother was praying for me. She was praying to Virgin Mary and Jesus. To Jesus. Saint Jesus. I went to Laos…
– GRACIAS A DIOS…
– They’re shooting, but I came out alive. Also, when I was on patrol, we used to see a little paper with [—-] propaganda, propaganda like writing in the paper, and the paper said [—-], “Go back to your country. Your family is waiting for you. Leave Korea for the Koreans.” In the paper. I used to look at the paper and say, “Oh, my God.” They have a soldier dead on top of the barbed wire. [—], “down.” but, forget about that.
– I’m so excited you’re going to get to go to Korea for the first time, right?
– When, now?
– Next month.
– No, second time, because I was there.
– Oh, second time!
– No, no. First time I was in combat.
– Oh, yes!
– Now I go for pleasure.
– Yes. I’m excited for you.
– I go for pleasure, for that time I was in combat.
– I’m so excited. Maybe I can meet you there.
– Oh, I hope so. I hope so.
– Yeah. Okay. What do you want to say when you go to Korea?
– Thank you, Koreans. Thank you.
– No! We thank you!
– Oh, yeah. Me too, me too.
– Why?
– You say it to me, I say it to you too.
– You don’t have to thank Koreans.
– No?
– No. We thank you, right?
– Well I say welcome. You’re welcome. You know, i was in Korea, I was in the hospital, in [—], in the hospital. From the frontline I went to sea, and they put me in the hospital, and the nurse was Korean. She shaved me, washed my face, my arms. Then [—], I keep sick, so they sent me to Busan.
– Swedish Field Hospital.
– Yeah.
– You went to Swedish Field hospital?
– There was a ship, a big ship.
– Yolandia.
– Yeah. In Busan. How do you say, Busa or Busan?
– Busa.
– We say Busan.
– Busa. You went to Yolandia, the ship?
– Yeah, I think so.
– Cool. I went…
– It was a big ship. [—-].
– I visited the Danish veterans.
– Oh, yeah?
– Yes.
– But that was their ship?
– Yes, Yolandia.
– Yeah. It was in the port of Busan. Right there. So I stayed there for one week, a couple of days, then they sent me back to the frontline.
– GRACIAS A DIOS, GRACIAS A DIOS ESTOY PORQUE DIOS LO QUISO ASÍ.
– Thank you. I pray that you will continue to have a lot of…
– Also, I have a friend of mine, rest in peace, his name was Pedro [—], from Puerto Rico. He was in Korea for 13 months. They told him, “You go back to Puerto Rico.” in for days. So one night we had to go on combat patrol, on combat. And then he said to the captain – the captain was American – “I’ve been here in Korea for 13 months. You [—-] the company, so I can go back home.” He said, “I don’t care how much time you’ve been in Korea, you have to go to fight. You’ll stay in the company.” And we went to combat, and he was killed. One bullet in the chest.
– Well, thank you so much. I’m so glad you are not…

8/20 산후안, 푸에르토리코 시내 (9)

[HABLA EN ALEMÁN].
– English.
– Okay, this [inaudible] says, “Welcome to the 65th Infantry Regiment.” This insignia here [inaudible]. [Inaudible] everybody, because the Puerto Ricans, our 65th infantry was [inaudible], and it’s still commemorated for the Korean War. And let me tell you, I talked [—–]. After 50 years, I went back to Korea, and I was so happy, because Korea today looks so [——]. [inaudible]. [inaudible[, and are waiting for people to remember us and talk about the 65th infantry regiment. It was amazing. I feel so good we have this display here. [inaudible]. It is me. And I’m proud to be a Korean veteran. And to the Korean people, Salaam-Alaikum. [Inaudible].
– … of us, you know. We’re so grateful to you as well, you know? I’m so happy you said that we [—–].
– God bless.
– Thank you.
– Anita?
– Anita, my granddaughter.
– ANITA. SÍ, SÍ, ANITA, SU NIETA.
– MI NIETA.
– SÍ.
– COREANA.
– SÍ.
– QUÉ BUENO.
– So, snow… I have, because [inaudible] in the United States, but we had two enemies. The enemy and also the snow, because it was really, really cold, and some of our men had to be amputated, because they got gangrene for the cold. And I tell you, it was terrible. But we made it, and, some of them… we have the man in Puerto Rico, who’s half maim. We had to amputate his legs.
– Frost bite.
– Frost bite, yeah.
– How many died, how many were killed in action?
– Wow. Too many.
– 70%.
– 70%?
– 17.
– 70. 7 – 0. 70% of the Puerto Rican heroes were killed in action.
– 70?
– 7- 0.
– My uncle, which was a soldier with the 65th infantry.
– How many…?
– I’ll look it up.
– 70%.
– But the round number… 70%.
– The funny thing is about my uncle, we never found out what happened to him, because…
– He’s MIA?
– I don’t know if he was a prisoner of war, but we never found his body.
– So he’s missing in action.
– Of course. As I already said, I’m going to dedicate my life for our veterans, because I miss my uncle.
– The records’ keeping at that time, remember…
– I know.
– There was a language barrier.
– I know.
– So… and there was a war going on.
– And there aren’t…
– So records got lost.
– And because the war hasn’t ended, you know, it’s difficult to identify the remains, or retrieve the remains. And so there are 8000 MIAs, POW in Korea, which is… you know…
– There might be some alive, but I doubt it, cause it’s such a long time. But I hope one day… they’ll return all these people to us. [—-].
– It’s something that’s very dear to my heart, so… Because the families will never know what happened to them.
– No closure.
– Yeah, no closure.
-Okay, my name is Thomas Lopez. I’m Puerto Rican, of course, and I’m part of the 65th infantry regiment. And let me tell you, they call me a hero, because [—-] the 65th infantry complete. [—-], because [—-] in Puerto Rico, they sent me some kind of… like a plaque, considering me a hero. It was not only Tommy Lopez, it was all the 65th infantry, represented. And when I went to Korea of course I’m going to talk about the cold, because it was really… the Puerto Rican, we’re not used to that kind of weather, and we had two enemies. The enemy and also the cold. And as a matter of fact, we have people, as I told you before, that became… A man in Puerto Rico that was half a man, because we had to amputate his whole legs. And a lot of them suffered the cold. [—-] being an infantry man, because we had to communicate in English, in Spanish. They sent me to school in Seoul, and I learned communications in Korea, and when I went back, I was [——-] for the big, big, big [—-] in charge of the 65th infantry regiment in Korea. And that made me feel so proud. But I’ll never forget those who still were fighting in Korea, because they were my people, and as A Puerto Rican I love [—-]. And thank you, thanks to you, Anita, because you make me feel so good, so happy. I wish you to continue learning with the 65th infantry, because we have to recognize [—-]. Personal recognition to Anita [….], thank you so very much. God bless. Okay, first of all, we should go up to the schools and teach our kids about the 65th Borinqueneers. A lot of people don’t ever recognize, no, when we’re in Korea, and in this personal memories that I still have should be distributed within the kids, to have an idea what it is to defend this great country, which is America. It’s my country too. I was born in Puerto Rico, but I became a citizen. When I was born in 1917, it was tough to be citizen, because we used to belong to Spain, and when they came to… the war between America and the other countries, we became citizens. [——] made us citizens. So I’ve been a citizen all of my life, since I was small, that’s right. But there’s one thing I’ll say. There was a smart kid [—–] and lifting the flag. There’s the [—-] reason the Puerto Rican flag, and wherever place I go, I make sure I take my flag too, because it represents the 65th infantry, the Borinqueneers. And this is why I want the kids to learn and to know the history, and love this great country. First, I’ll say thank you to the Korean people, because I love you. And also, such a big change made me feel so proud and so clean about Korea. The people dress so nice, everybody, [—-] people. And of course, [—-] before, we did the other… [—] and many evangelistic churches, and we’re happy we had a chance to some of them. [—–] was so happy that we were there.
– Well, you deserve to be treated like kings.
– Thank you.
– Hi, thank you, Hannah. Yeah, so, the 65th infantry regiment of Puerto Rico fought in every major campaign of the United States wars, from World War I to World War II and Korea. But they distinguished themselves during the Korean conflict. The Korean conflict was 3 years. The Puerto Rican regiment was a regiment sized military unit. So, they fought in 9 major campaigns, from the battle of the chosen reservoir, where they were the frozen chosen, to the evacuation of Hungnam, and most famously was the bayonet charge of February 2nd, in 1951, where 2 battalions of the regiment encountered the Chinese 149th division. Now, a division is made up of 10,000 men, and a battalion is made up of approximately 1,000 men. So, there are your contrasts. So the numbers were basically, you know, 10 to 1, right? 100 to 1. So they fought valiantly for 3 days. They fought so valiantly, that the order came down to fix… the order came back to fix – the memories came back – the order came back to fix bayonets. The bayonet was fixed to their rifles. The order was given to charge, and they fought almost basically hand to hand in a very ferocious battle. As the culmination of that battle, there was the sound of a bugle. The bugle sounded withdrawal. It was the sound of the Chinese bugle, which called their units to withdraw. Now, there were 7% casualties. They left no men behind. They brought back all of their wounded. They brought back the story of what occurred to their commanders, the commanders brought that back to us, and now we bring that story back to you. So, as a culmination of that distinction, that gallantry in the field of battle that even the enemy had to bow in respect to this kind of worthy opponent. So it took us approximately 65 years to bring attention to… the military, where they had to prove themselves, they had to contend not only with the elements and with [—-], but with a ferocious enemy. They proved themselves time and again in their ingenuity, in their gallantry, in their bravery in battle. And then even after such, here, 65 years later, I gather together the remnant of these veterans to be in the 65th infantry on a task force, to help educate the public, help educate the congress, to help bring attention to their magnificent story to the American landscape, which culminated in the award of the Congressional Gold Medal, which is the highest award that the people to the United States can give any military unit. and in their gratitude as well, the people of Korea, and the government of Korea, awarded each of the Korean veterans this friendship medal, and also the Ambassador for Peace medal, so…
– Smile! Look here!

8/30 호놀룰루, 하와이 (11)

>> Hello, my name is Tommy Tahara, and then I was stationed at Camp [INAUDIBLE] in [INAUDIBLE], Japan, before the Korean War. That was in 1950 when … And then when the Korean War started, I was in the 7th Division, Company E … No, Company F. “Fox Company,” they call it, Fox Company, and then I was stationed in Camp [INAUDIBLE], and then … What do you call it? When the war started, took none of our personnel from our company and put them in the 44 and 25th Division, so we were left. We were [INAUDIBLE] starting [INAUDIBLE] our company. So, actually, we went in August. We went to Camp Fuji, and we were waiting for the KATUSAs to come in. They picked up all the young kids or whoever old men from Korea, and they loaded up them on a ship, and they shipped them to Yokohama, and then they trained them to Camp Fuji. That was in August of 1950, and one of a friend … He’s the old chapter. He’s a KATUSA. His name is Seok, and then he was with the 7th Division. Our 7th Division, we had about 9,000 KATUSAs, and every company had about 100 KATUSAs. In other words, that made us, you know, combat-ready, but we had to train those guys because they came from Korea, and when they hit our cafeteria, our kitchen, they’d get a cup of coffee. They’d put about 10 teaspoonful of sugar in there because, you know, sugar was … They couldn’t get it in Korea, but anyway, they were terrible. They had diarrhea and all that after that, but after we trained them only for about 3 weeks, and then we loaded up on a ship, and we sailed to Korea. We waited in Pusan Harbor, and we waited outside of Pusan Harbor and waited for Operation Chromite. That was invasion of Korea with the 1st Marine Division and the 7th Division, Infantry Regiment. Anyway, I was in the 17th Infantry Regiment, and my friend Seok was in the 31st Infantry Regiment, and okay. We landed in Inchon, and then we headed towards Seoul, but at that time when we left, we were still young. I was only a [INAUDIBLE] 19 years old, and then we saw all the dead bodies all over the train station, civilians and all that. First time we saw those dead bodies, and most of us … Korean civilians over there. They’re … I guess they got killed by the bombing and all the artillery and the ships because we had over 100 ships outside of Inchon. Anyway, after that we went to where the first battle. It was a hill over Seoul, and then that’s the first time I saw bullets flying all over my head, and my buddy right next to me, he got shot right in the throat. He was standing right next to me, and he got shot in the throat, and you know how frightened you get because that’s the first time you see a guy bleeding from the throat now. Anyway after that, we headed towards Suwon and Suwon side, down south. It was the North Koreans were retreating back. It was we were coming back from the Naktong River side. They were coming back up, and we were going down and meeting them, so we had some few battles over there, around [INAUDIBLE] Suwon earlier, and later on, you know, until almost October, they trained … We’re a convoy bound to Pusan, and from Pusan, we loaded up on our LST and then we headed up north on our [INAUDIBLE]. What sea was that? Japan’s sea all the way up north, and then we passed Wonsan and we landed in Iwon. That was in November of 1950, so you see, the 7th Division had three regiments: 17th Infantry Regiment, the 31st Infantry Regiment and the 32nd Infantry Regiment, and I was with 17th. Okay, that’s … I think the 31st one on our left, they closed the Marine side, the 1st Marine Division. They came up from Wonsan, riding down … What it called? San … What it called? Sanjin, or they’re … Anyway, they call that [INAUDIBLE]. I think they call it Hyesanjin. Hyesanjin, that area. Anyway, the Marines were on the left side of the Reservoir. Then couple of battalions of the 31st and 32nd went on the right side of the river, and our friend Seok was in the 31st. He was on the left side, and our 17th, we went up our way through Kaesong. We’re 80 miles above the [INAUDIBLE] to Chosin Reservoir. We ride up to Kaesong and then to Hyesanjin. It was right on the Yalu River over there, and we still [INAUDIBLE] was in the [INAUDIBLE] yeah. Anyway, was in the [INAUDIBLE]. October/November, anyway. That’s the first time I saw snow. The first time I saw snow, I’m from Hawaii, and it was real warm. [INAUDIBLE] just like cotton falling down, you know? So excited. Anyway, we went inside our [INAUDIBLE] first, before [INAUDIBLE] on Yalu River, and then [INAUDIBLE], we found a reindeer [INAUDIBLE] over there, so the guys shot one reindeer, and that was before Thanksgiving now, so they hang up the reindeer, and they cut it all up here, and I think I ate some. I’m not sure [INAUDIBLE]. Anyway, after that, we stayed there in, what do you call, Hyesanjin for a couple of weeks of [INAUDIBLE] in the new [INAUDIBLE], once you’re in [INAUDIBLE]. It was so cold, so anyway, right about that time, the Chinese came down, right through there, or [INAUDIBLE], what [INAUDIBLE] got paid back or something like that, and then the Chinese kept pouring in, so we had to retreat, so what we did was threw the [INAUDIBLE] lot of our equipment. We dropped. We [INAUDIBLE]. Another we had [INAUDIBLE] we couldn’t carry. We could run it, and then we kind of retreated back there. I think, gee, that must have been about over 100 miles to Hamhung, H, A, M, H, U, N, G, Hamhung, and then I think in a couple of weeks, we entered Hamhung, and we set up out base outside of … The 1st Marine was trapped inside here by the Chosin Reservoir, with about two, three regiments of the 7th Division, 31st and 32nd. I think that was called task force [INAUDIBLE]. Anyway, so we were down by Hamhung, and we set up our position over there in the … What do you call it? When the Marines got to the trap over there, they escaped. They came down from Hungnam. Hungnam, it was, Hungnam, and they moved to Hamhung, Hamhung. That’s where they had the big park over there, and we had, oh, so many ships out there, Japanese ships, all kind of ships because we had to escape. We had to get away. Whatever equipment we could carry, and then we load it up on the ship. Was in almost December, almost Christmastime, and the whole division loaded up on a ship, LST or whatever, and then we headed to Pusan. Again, the last outfit that left there was the 3rd Division. They were the last ones there, to blow up all the places that Hungnam, Hungnam, the park over there. And then December, Christmas, almost New Year’s, we were in Pusan, and then we had frostbite. Most of us had frostbite because the cold. Sometimes it was about 30 to 40 below 0, and the wind was terrible. You cannot go outside and just use the toilet over there because it’s so cold, you can’t … You know what I mean. Thirty, 40 below 0, so all our hands all black. You see my hands? Oh, yeah, all black. Anyway, so anyway, we went to Seoul or Pusan. We went to medical. They checked us out, and I guess at that time to last [INAUDIBLE] leave like a South Korean troop, so they got something out. At that time in the ’50s, a [INAUDIBLE] Caucasian, Asian. They’d call us gooks, again, even though I’m an American, but since I’m Asiatic and I look like a South Koreans or whatever, and they looked down on us, some of them, and some of them are nice, but anyway, after that, in January of ’51, we went up north again. [INAUDIBLE] set up position. Maybe [INAUDIBLE]. I know I remember when Chief [INAUDIBLE] someplace in the [INAUDIBLE]. They said Chief [INAUDIBLE] had a gold mine, so everyone [INAUDIBLE] gold mine [INAUDIBLE], and then [INAUDIBLE] went up to [INAUDIBLE], [INAUDIBLE], and then they all went to this, so the reservoir over there, I think it was [INAUDIBLE] or something like that, and then there was a lot of fighting over there, and actually scariest fighting we had was in February of 1951. At night, as a first stand we had a attack from, what do you call, like a bonsai attack where all of [INAUDIBLE] shoot the flares up in the air and the trumpet and the bugle and all that, and they come charging up there. That was the scariest one because you was young and only 19 years old. Anyway, that was the first experience. I said that [INAUDIBLE] because in the dock, you just keep firing. You don’t know who you’re shooting at because [INAUDIBLE], and a lot of troops died here. In fact, the scariest thing is when you shoot in a foxhole, and you wake up in the morning, and your companion is missing because the Chinese coming. You’re in a sleeping bag, sleeping. They grab the sleeping bag and drag you. They drag you, so when you look at, your buddy is gone. It’s very scary, so actually when I came back home, I used to get nightmares. When you’re in bed, you get what they call PTSD. [INAUDIBLE] screaming in bed, and you are yelling. Yeah, I was like that all those years. Anyway, after June or from 1951, they gave me a, what do you call, rotated. They rotated me out because I had enough points, so instead of coming back to Hawaii, I met my friend in Sasebo. Sasebo, and you know what he did? My friend, he went to personnel, and he changed my order, saying that he’s … I’m going to what do you call? I’m going to the East Coast with him, and he gave my name and his address, so they shipped me over to … on a ship, and we went to San Francisco, and the three of us, with friends, took a train all the way to Chicago and, from Chicago, caught another train to Baltimore. Went to Baltimore. In Baltimore, my friend, he had a wealthy family. They had a hotel, like a inn, a restaurant and a barber shop, so my friend’s dad, he bought him a new convertible, Ford convertible, and that was in ’51. Let me see what’s that, July … No, it was in August, September. Two months I was staying with him in Baltimore, called Baltimore. Anyway, we had a lot of fun. Then we separated. He went to Fort Benning, Georgia, and they sent me up to Fort Dix, New Jersey, so I was with the 39th, the 9th Infantry Division, 39th Infantry Regiment. There was a basic-training company, and then, see, I couldn’t stand the New Jersey weather. It was terrible. It was so cold. [INAUDIBLE] Atlantic Ocean, but it was … because I had all frozen hands, fingers. I didn’t like the cold, so I said, “I need a transfer.” So they tell me, “Where you want to go?” They gave me three options: 3S, it was on the great [INAUDIBLE] 3S [INAUDIBLE] same thing or Germany or Japan. When they said Japan, I said, “Oh, okay! Okay, I’ll go back to Japan,” so they sent me back to Japan, but you know where they sent me? They sent me with the first captain, the first captain that [INAUDIBLE] Korea from [INAUDIBLE] to [INAUDIBLE] Okaido. I went with a … They sent me with a 7th, I mean a 1st Cav, 7th Cavalry Regiment in support, outside [INAUDIBLE] Cav [INAUDIBLE] profit, so we had ski training over there, and anyway, I was there for all about, what, 2 months. Then I went AWOL. You know AWOL? And when I came back after about a week, they threw me in the brig, all of us in the brig. Well, they sent us back to Korea! Instead of giving us [INAUDIBLE], they sent us all back to Korea, so I ended up with a 3rd Division, so 3rd Division when I went there was in 2nd Battalion. They send me to 2nd Battalion, 7th Infantry Regiment, 3rd Division. This guy … They sent me to his headquarters company. It’s like a, what do you call, this Japanese guy, Futo. He was heading a squad of Koreans who could speak Chinese and all kind of Shanghai and Mandarin and all that, and then they could speak Japanese and, of course, Korean, so anyway, a squad of Crown, we call that the King Fishes, so I was put in charge of that. I was a squad leader for that, and it was all Koreans, and they don’t know Japanese. I could speak a little Japanese, so that’s why they put me in there. Anyway, what we did was … Everybody, we had some radio and we’d listen to the, what do you call, the Chinese and the North Koreans, whatever they say on their radio where they communicate, and we intercept them, and we tried to decode what they’re saying. They’re all talking [INAUDIBLE] we call it [INAUDIBLE]. The Chinese are talking code, so they’d translate to me in Japanese, and I’d try to translate it in English to the battalion headquarters. Most of the time, we were up on the hill because when we sent out a patrol at night, that’s when you … We had to listen to see if the enemy is … They came on the patrol that’s coming in, so anyway, sometimes when we’re up on the lookout, way up there and then we’re looking down, and then the Chinese threw artilleries, hundreds of artillery on us. In fact, one time the artillery was so close, it hit our bunker and then blasted us. It was almost a bit, only about 4 feet or 5 feet in front of me. I said the whole bunker, and I had three, four Koreans with me that were translators. All of us in that bunk [INAUDIBLE], and before I knew it, I was on a helicopter. They sent us back because my eardrum was blasted. Couldn’t hear, had concussion, and so they sent me back to the back. I don’t know how far back we went but helicopter. It was the first time I rode in a helicopter, and I was so scared. You know, helicopter is so nice, so small. Those days, the helicopters were small. Anyway, I was there for almost 1 month, and they sent me back to the company, and you know what? To this day, I cannot remember anybody, the first sergeant, the captain in that time. When I came back, I don’t know how I came back, and it took me months and years to find out how I came back, and I had PTSD. Anyway, when I came back in 1953, I’m telling you, oh, I didn’t know what to do because I couldn’t remember a lot of stuff. It was because of that concussion and all that. My doctor said maybe I had something, amnesia. You forget, yeah? And those days you didn’t have this kind of VA and all that. I had to go to a private doctor, and the private doctor … My hands were all blue and cold. They thought I had Raynaud’s disease, so I had to quit smoking, and I had to quit drinking coffee because it affected my hands, so to this day, I don’t drink coffee or smoke. I used to smoke two packs a day, but … Ah, that’s okay. Anyway, after that, when I came home in ’53, I found a job in the Marshall Islands with AEC, Atomic Energy Commission. We were testing those atomic bombs or hydrogen bomb, so we were a service company [INAUDIBLE] and in our, let me see, [INAUDIBLE] November. November, I went back to the Marshall Islands to stay there in Enewetok Atoll. Enewetok Atoll has about 22 small islands, and we were on Parry Island, and then what we did was our company was service [INAUDIBLE] of scientists, the army personnel there. You know, we’d clean. We’d clean their house, laundry, everything. It’s the kind of job we had. Anyway, I stayed there for about a year and a half. Then I came home for a couple months. Then I went back, and I did that for about 6 years until … from end of 1953 to about 1959. Almost 6 years I did that. And after that, when I came back, I worked for the US Post Office, and then at the post office, I was assigned as to deliver mail. At that time, we were delivering mail with a motorcycle, motorcycle with a sidecar. We’d put all the mail in a sidecar and then deliver the mail, so actually after that we had trucks, all different kind of trucks, and during that 44 years I worked as a carrier, I got bit six times by dogs because at first when you ride in a motorcycle, we didn’t have any leash law in Hawaii. Leash law is you’ve got to leash the dogs, but the dogs were always running loose all over the place, and they’d chase the motorcycle and jump on you, and they’d bite you. I got bit six times. Anyway, after that, we had the leash law, so they had to tie down the dog or put them in a fenced house, so they cannot be running around loose, so I was 44 years as a carrier, and then I retired in 2004. Ah, that’s about it.

>> And right now you play such an instrumental role …

>> And then in 1988, I joined our chapter, Chapter One, and then later on, 1988 and about 2006 or 2007, I started helping out with the POW/MIA guys. They used to come every year to what you call a reunion. Every year we had a guy in our [INAUDIBLE] POW [INAUDIBLE] Matsumoto, and he used to handle that, and I used to help him with our [INAUDIBLE]. Anyway, that’s how I learned how to do things, how to make a reunion in order. After I knew how to do that, I had to contact with all the personnel down in Hickam, down in Camp Schmidt, Hickam, and then me …

>> What …

>> Me and another guy, we did all our chapter’s event, even punch bowl event or [INAUDIBLE], whatever event we had in [INAUDIBLE] Christmas or whatever.

>> What does it mean to you, the legacy of Korean War veterans?

>> What’s that?

>> The legacy of Korean War veterans, what is it to you?

>> At first, we didn’t know where Korea was actually. I’m telling you, but we heard of Korea, but when we went there, the first thing we saw was, the Koreans at that time, they always walking with that hat. What do you call it, the long hat, the black hat?

>> The gat.

>> Yeah, with the [INAUDIBLE].

>> Yes, gat, gat.

>> And they got white, white shirt. Everybody wore white those days and then the smell of the, what do you call that thing, honey bucket? They used that as fertilizer, yeah? They put on the whatever, the waste from each house. They put it in a bucket, and they get the ox to move it, and we would see that, and what they did was they threw that thing, that dew, into the rice field as a fertilizer, but that’s the first time we seen it. Anyway, Korea, when we left over there, it was a wreck, nothing. Everything was flat, and I was surprised when I came back for the revisit. I think it was in 2001, the first summer I came back. Wow, everything was built in [INAUDIBLE], those big towers, all that. I was really surprised. I tell you, though, Koreans, they really worked hard, and they did a good job. And I guess they always respect [INAUDIBLE] soldiers or whatever for helping them out because if it wasn’t for American soldiers, our soldiers from the different countries that helped Korea, Korea would be just nothing, just like the North now. Look at the North. At night, you cannot even see the lights, so anyway, I’m really thankful that Korea is what it is today. Okay.

8/30 호놀룰루, 하와이 (12)

>> My name is Jose Jimenez. No. Frank R. Chang, and I was in the First Marine Division, and at that time, back in the 1950s, right after World War II, I joined the Marine Corps, and it was rare at that time because there were no Chinese in the Marines, very few. They were just starting to let them in, and I was one of probably the first half dozen to a dozen, at best, in the Marine Corps. Okay? What else do you want to know?

>> Did you get to … Why not the Army? Why the Marine Corps?

>> Oh, there was a lot of good movies put out on the Marines in those days, so that’s what got me in there, and it was very romantic and brave and heroic, and they were going to save the world, and I was a young guy, and didn’t know any better, and so I joined the Marine Corps when the war, Korean War, broke out. That was December of 1950, I don’t know, 1951, ’52.

>> Knowing that the war was ongoing, and knowing that you could die …

>> Oh, when you’re young, you don’t worry about dying. You think you’re going to live forever.

>> What do you remember?

>> What do I remember?

>> Where did you get trained before …

>> What do I remember?

>> Where were you trained? Which camp?

>> I trained in Camp Pendleton, California. Down there towards San Diego, between San Diego and Los Angeles. I was probably one of the first half dozen orientals that joined the Marine Corps at that time because it was right after World War II, and prior to that, and during World War II, they did not have … bring in the Chinese or orientals in the Marines, and especially during the Korean War you would be mistaken for an enemy because at that time, they were stripping our wounded and dead and wearing our uniforms because they were poorly equipped. The Chinese that came into the war in Korea were not equipped very well. They were recruited fresh from China, and they were only in Chinese uniforms, and it was winter when I went over there, so they were stripping our dead and wounded of their clothing and wearing it, so it was quite something that I was able to go over there because, being oriental, that’s the first thing you aimed and pulled the trigger on because we were fighting North Koreans and Chinese at that time.

>> Did you face discrimination among other …

>> Well, they always thought I was the enemy, and having joined the Marines, I was probably, like I said, probably one of the first half dozen, not even a dozen that joined the Marines and were able to be part of the Marine Corps, and many times I was pushed out of the foods lines, what we called the chow lines, because I looked like a Korean or a Chinese, not Chinese but mostly Korean because we had a lot of Koreans working for us.

>> Oh.

>> So if I’d get in the chow line, they’d kick me out.

>> Because they thought you were one of the houseboys or interpretors.

>> Yeah, they thought I was one of the houseboys or one of the what we call … I hate to say it, but that’s … We used to call them chiggy bearers, and these were the Koreans that we recruited to work for us.

>> What bearers?

>> We used to call them chiggy.

>> Chiggy?

>> Yeah, C-H-I-G-G-Y, chiggy.

>> What does that mean?

>> I don’t even know what it means, it’s just a name, but these were Koreans that we hired and they carried all our ammunition, all our food on their backs up these mountains, and this was when I was young and wild, and I called them the chiggy bearer, but I soon learned that these were not just chiggy bearers and slaves. They were people, and one of … A little old Korean man taught me a lesson that I will never forget.

>> Share that.

>> Well, we just got through battle, a battle, and we took a hill. We took the position, and as we were digging in, as we call it in the Marine Corps, we were digging out foxholes and building fortification, this little Korean chiggy bearer, as we used to call them, this little Korean guy, after carrying a big, heavy box of food or ammunition up those mountains to us, after they drop off all the supplies, before they go back down the mountain, they’d spread out through the area, and that day, after the battle, I was cutting a huge log for something, and being a young person and a Marine, I looked down on this little old guy, but he pushed me aside, and he grabbed the ax that I was using, and I’ve been working on this log for maybe an hour or 2 hours or 3 hours but forever, and I hadn’t gotten very far, but he grabbed the ax from me, and he proceeded to chop it up in about a minute and a half. He was like an automatic machine, and as I leaned against a tree or wherever I was leaning against, I thought to myself, “I’m ashamed of myself. I’m very ashamed of myself because I looked down on this little Korean man. He carried my ammunition and my food up this mountain, and I’ve been working on this log for 10 years and didn’t get very far, and he comes up here and he shows me in a way how to chop a log up,” and he had it chopped and piled up in less than a minute and a half. He was like a machine, and that’s when I learned, as a young person, never look down on anybody else, no matter what, and even though I came over to this country to help him, he showed me something, and I was ashamed of myself, and that was a lesson in life. I never forgot that.

>> Humility, huh?

>> Never look down on another human being, no matter what.

>> Let’s talk …

>> That’s my story.

>> Yeah. Let’s talk about Punchbowl because Punchbowl is a very famous battle.

>> Well, by the time I got to Punchbowl, the hills had been taken.

>> When was that? What month and year?

>> I don’t remember the month. I’ll tell you the year: The year was about … I think I was … I don’t even remember. I think I was over there in ’51, ’50 or ’51. We were there. I was there, and I spent a Christmas there. Christmas Eve, I was walking by myself, and the guns … And we had big guns in the Punchbowl area, and they would fire off every so often, and it was one of the most … How could I say it? Incredible sounds that I hear to this day, the big guns firing. Christmas Eve in Korea, a cloudless moon. It was a beautiful sight, really, in your memory, and the guns would fire off every 5 to 10 minutes, and the echo reverberated through the Punchbowl area because it had, what, three sides of the mountains all around you, and I hear those sounds today, periodically, so that’s kind of a memory of Korea.

>> Many died in that battle.

>> Many, many, many.

Many, many, many, and they … not ours but on the other side, the enemy, they laid where they died.

>> North Koreans or Chinese?

>> Pardon?

>> North Koreans or Chinese?

>> Probably a mixture because you couldn’t tell. They all looked alike. I looked alike. I looked like them, and in fact, I’m probably … Like I say, I’m probably one of the first half dozen, other than my comrades here in the group because they were … I guess I’d say they were probably in the northern part or the western part of the … I don’t know. I was young at that time, but in the Marine Corps, in our sector, I was probably one of the first half dozen that was in combat. Yeah. Because in the Marines, they didn’t have Chinese, and they didn’t have orientals, and in fact, when I went over as a replacement, there was one other guy that came in from Tarrytown, New York. His name is Al Hui. That’s that guy right there. That’s Al Hui, and …

>> His last name was Huey?

>> H-U-I, Hui.

>> Oh, and where … Which state was he from?

>> Huh?

>> Which state was he from?

>> No, no, I’m sorry.

>> What’s his hometown?

>> There were two. That’s Al Hui there. He was from Tarrytown, New York, and this is Herbie. That’s the other oriental guy that I met over there.

>> Where was he from?

>> He was from Wisconsin some place, which is from unusual, and I was from the San Francisco, Bay Area, so there were three of us. We got all separated in different parts of the First Marine Division, but Al and I landed together, ended up together at the replacement depot where the new guys came in, and they called Al and myself into the commanding officer’s tent, and commanding officer is siting at a table there, and we were standing at attention in front of him, and he said, “You two guys” … I remember, he pointed at … “You two guys are not going to go up on line and join an outfit.” He said, “You won’t last more than a week,” because we were fighting the Koreans and the Chinese at that time, and it was wintertime, and they were stripping our dead of their clothes and wearing them, so the first time orientals in the Marine Corps, there was no such thing. There were, like I say at that time, there were maybe six, half a dozen at best of …

>> In the entire Marine Corps or just your division?

>> Hmm?

>> In the entire …

>> In the entire Marine Corps, in the entire Marine Corps because the Marines were fighting in the islands during World War II, so they were fighting the Japanese, and they had no Marines, as far as I know, and I’m pretty darn sure because when we went over there, Al and I stayed together, and the commanding officer said, the replacement depot officer said, “You two guys are not going to go off the line. We’re keeping you back here. You won’t last more than a week,” and I looked at Al, and he looked up at me, and I said, “No, sir, we want to go up on line and join our company,” and I remember his exact words: He said, “You sure?” and I said, “Yes, sir. I want to join my company.” He said, “Okay. You won’t last more than a week, but if that’s what you want, you will join them,” and I joined Dog Company, and Al joined the Easy Company, which when we went up on the battle together, battle lines, we were always together, the two companies, alongside of each other.

>> Did he make it back too?

>> Hmm?

>> Did he make it back?

>> Al made it back because he was a machine gunner, and machine gunners are pretty good. And, well, we were both lucky.

>> And you saw combat?

>> Oh, yeah.

>> So you saw people actually die next to you?

>> I wasn’t with the company more than 2 weeks. I walk down the hill one morning. There was roughly 27 guys. Next morning, four of us was carrying a stretcher, and one of my guys that I went over there with, we carried him on that long, up a mountain, and by the time we got within about 25 feet of our line, he rolled off one last time and died. I carried him all night. We carried him all night up a mountain. So that was my beginning in Korea. Yes, we saw a lot of people die. We saw a lot of people never made it home. This is why, today … That’s why today, I still don’t forget. You never forget.

>> And you were how old?

>> I guess I was … No, I was 17. I joined when I was 17, April 5th. I was in Korea, I think November, November of that same year, after training …

>> In 1950? In 1950 or 1951?

>> 1950 … I don’t know. It was 1950 or ’51. I forget the year now. I haven’t looked at the records or anything.

>> Because the war broke out on June 25th, 1950, so maybe ’51?

>> Well, it might have been ’51. I forget now. My mother had to sign on a dotted line for me to get in because I was 17. Yeah.

>> How old are you now? Or how young are you now?

>> Eighty-four.

>> Well, you’re still considered young compared to some of the veterans, right? And you keep yourself very, very fit and healthy and young, and I guess …

>> Well, God has been good to me. He gave me good genes, and I guess I took care of my body.

>> Because you probably understood how precious it is.

>> I stayed fit. All my life I was pretty fit because I’ve been in the outdoors. I was at … No, actually, I have to take that back. See, I have to think because I never even thought … I was 18. I was 18 when I went over to Korea. I was 17 when I joined the Marine Corps, and in the Marines … I went in at 17, and I had my 18th birthday a month later. I had to get in so bad. That’s another story from way back.

>> When’s your birthday?

>> But I had to have my mother sign on a dotted line.

>> When’s your birthday?

>> Hmm? April 5th.

>> Your birthday is April 5th?

>> Yeah.

>> I went in March 7th, March 7th.

>> My birthday is in April too.

>> You’re another Aries, that’s why.

>> Oh, I’m a Taurus.

>> Oh, you’re a Taurus.

>> Yes.

>> Oh, well.

>> Even more stubborn, Tauruses.

>> Yeah.

>> Well, first of all, you …

>> Yeah, well …

>> Many followed … You’re a pioneer, in a way, because many … Now we know there’s many Asian-American …

>> Oh, nothing but orientals in there now, many, many.

>> My cousin was …

>> In fact, I have a grandson …

>> Yeah, my cousin was in the Marines for more than 20 years.

>> Yeah, my grandson was in there. Where is my grandson? There’s my grandson. He came back from Iraq.

>> That was another difficult war.

>> This shows him come back from Iraq, and I was carrying his pack.

>> Mm. You must have been so proud.

>> I was carrying his pack.

>> Now, you have some pictures here. Did you take any of them yourself, the pictures?

>> Oh, I probably did. These were in Korea. These were the only ones that survived in Korea. I had what we call a Pony 135-millimeter camera in those days, but the thing is I had several rolls of film, but the moisture, and we could not develop over there, so by the time I got them back, they were all moldy, so I never bothered to develop a lot of these pictures, and they were all …

>> But they’re still very well-kept.

>> Well, not all of them. They were mostly all ruined. I didn’t take a lot of these pictures. A lot of these pictures I … Some of these, I took. This was over there. This was over in Korea. These are the hills in Korea, and I think these were too, yeah, but very few of them survived. That’s when I graduated from what we called boot camp. This is a picture over here in Camp Pendleton that I was at, 18 years old, but the only pictures that really survived … This is a battle picture that survived.

>> Where was that?

>> I don’t know. One of the many hills. Right here, this is one of the many hills that we took, and here’s that Al, up in the battle line. He was in Easy Company, and I was in Dog Company, and we was always together.

>> Did you both keep in touch afterwards?

>> Pardon?

>> Did you keep in touch after the war?

>> Yes. We both made it through and came back, and we kept in touch, and he was a smoker, so he did himself in.

>> What do you think … Looking back, while at the time you were young and you wanted to seek adventure, so you joined, but looking back now, almost 70 years later, what do you think … What do you think your legacy was?

>> What do I think of what?

>> What do you think your legacy …

>> I have no legacy. My legacy is, I behaved myself, became a good Marine, did my part for something. I don’t know what, but the most important part is, God taught me many lessons.

>> And you’ve been back to Korea?

>> Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Most wonderful part because the Koreans over there had a program for these last … How many years now? God, 30 years, 40 years, and I’ve gone back and able to visit and see the growth and what was accomplished, and it kept me humble.

>> I hope you feel very proud.

>> Well, I just did my part, just like many, many guys, and especially the guys that never made it home. That’s what I’ll … And that’s what … That’s what I keep remembering. I made it home, and most of these guys that we had reunions later on that I was able to get ahold of, we owe for all those that never came back …

>> Well …

>> … that never came back. We were all young men at that time, and these reunion pictures that were taken, we grow old from young men. We grew old, and there I am old.

>> And I would like to say you lived to tell the stories, and honor the memories …

>> Well, it’s important …

>> And honor the memories of those who couldn’t come back.

>> Yeah.

>> So thank you, and I guess that’s what I’m just trying to do to honor your memories.

>> Well, not so much as mine but those that never made it home.

>> Yeah, but …

>> That’s the important …

>> You’re the one that’s tell theirs …

>> Well, I can …

>> … because who will remember them?

>> I can do my best to tell the story as best as I can, but it’s not just me. It was many, many of them, especially those that I went over with. They never saw a month. They never saw one month more.

>> I guess when you’re young … Well, not even when you’re young, but many people think it won’t happen to them, like you read in the paper about somebody crashing and dying in a car accident, but you never think it’s going to happen to you, but so many of fearlessly just joined, thinking it won’t happen to you, but it must have been very, very real when it did … you saw …

>> When you’re young, your mind is small, and you don’t experience a lot of things. You go over there as a young man. As a young man, I walked down the hill. I wasn’t over there a month. I walked down the hill one morning with, I would say … I have the number in my head 27. Twenty-seven of us walked down the hill one morning, and the next morning, to my knowledge, there was only four of us that walked back up. I carried a stretcher within one of my buddies at 18 years old up a hill all night long after a battle during the day. We walked down a hill 27 of us. Next morning, four of us walked back up carrying a stretcher.

>> So what do you think was … How are you the four that survived? What do you think was your, I don’t know, blessing, luck, fortune, skill, whatever it was?

>> God. There’s such a thing as a God.

>> Well, why do you think …

>> See, I was raised in an orphanage that was a Christian orphanage.

>> Okay, that’s what I thought.

>> So I believed in a God quite early as a young man.

>> Okay, so it was God, but why did God spare your life if, maybe out of the 27, all of them believed in him?

>> That’s what I asked. Through my many, many years to my old age, I talked to God constantly. I don’t quite follow him well enough, but he’s there. I know there is a God. I believe in a God.

>> Oh, I do too, but sometimes I ask, “Why me?”

>> That’s the question that we all had. That’s the question that all of us asked, not in public, but I can tell you this between you and me that I don’t talk to other veterans a lot. We don’t talk about it too much, but I know in our secret of our time together, sitting on a couch, sitting on a chair, sitting on a bench, sitting outside, looking around, we know there’s a God, and for those of us that really knows him, we thank him for allowing us to be back here to raise our families, raise children, have grandchildren, but never, never a week goes by that I don’t think of those I left behind that never came home.

>> Even after 70 years.

>> That never came home. Our debt is to our buddies that never came home, and when you see the craziness and the wildness in the youth that is growing up thinking that there’s forever, we do the best that we can for those one-on-one, maybe, and pastors in churches or whatever, they do it one on the congregation, and we try to tell a message that, “Hey, sober up. Mature. Do something for maybe one other. For as many as will listen to you.” See, I owe a debt, not to me but to those that never came home, never got old. I’m an old man now, not a young guy anymore. Not a young guy, 18 years old in Korea. I owe my buddies a debt to be a better person, to do something worthwhile. That’s the important part. That is the most important part.

>> And I’m sure you’ve fulfilled it.

>> I’m very fortunate. God loves me, and I’m still here. I have grandchildren and great-grandchildren.

>> And one more.

8/30 호놀룰루, 하와이 (7)

>> My name is Ken Tashiro. My wife and I like to sing, and when we were living on the big island, I was inspired to write this song, and she helped me with the lyrics.

>> What is the song?

>> It’s “This Land is Your Land,” and it was written by Woody Guthrie, and it was sung by Pete Seeger. And so we took those words, and we made new words for it that applied to Korea. I was in Korea from July 4th, 1950. I was there 1 week after the war started. I was in Japan with the occupation, so this song details all the things that I’ve seen. I started out in Busan, went up to the [INAUDIBLE] and had the first battle and went up to …

[ Chatter ]

>> Okay. All right. And then we went up to North Korea, went to Pyongyang, and then we were 5 or 10 miles south of the Yellow River when the Chinese communists came in, and so we had to retreat, so …

>> Were you part of the Task Force Smith?

>> No. If I had been, I’m afraid I would’ve been dead, but we were … I was fortunate and got back, and got back south of Seoul, and then in June of 1951, I had enough points to rotate to go back to the mainland or to Japan, and since I had almost 10 months left, they had me sent to Japan. Then I got out May of 1952, so I almost spent 5 years in the army. But this song reflected my feelings and the third verse about the people that were killed and about the people who were wounded, and maybe they weren’t wounded in body, but they were wounded in mind or in the soul, so that’s what that came from.

>> Can you take it out, the lyrics, so I could show the lyrics?

>> Yes.

>> How long did it take you to write it?

>> [INAUDIBLE].

>> Okay.

>> [INAUDIBLE].

>> You know, here I was so surprised that you wrote against the armies of North Korea and the Chinese commies too. Many of your friends, your comrades in the chapters, they’re Chinese Americans, and, first of all, you as a Japanese American, what did it feel like to you? Because there’s a very complicated relationship between US and Japan at the time because it was right after World War II and Pearl Harbor, and you were here in Hawaii. And then, of course, the Japanese had colonialized Korea before, and so there was that very complicated relationship. So what, as a Japanese American … It’s not like you chose to make all of that happen. It was more political. What, as a young boy, how did it make you feel? It must’ve been so difficult.

>> Well, as a young boy during World War II, the Japanese Americans were evacuated from the West Coast. I was born and raised in California, and we were forced to leave there and go inland. And then we went to a camp in Gila River, Arizona, and we were in camp for 2 years. Then I was sent out because my dad, who was in the 442, he was an [INAUDIBLE], he was in the 442, but it didn’t make any difference. So we had to go to Minneapolis, and I went to high school there. And finally we got back to California, and then in 1947, I volunteered for the army.

>> Why did you want to volunteer? I would’ve been so angry, honestly.

>> Well, I’m a Christian, first of all.

>> Yes.

>> And so first, I felt very angry about the war, but then I decided that the war, it’s one of those things. There’s a saying in Japanese. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. It means, “Can’t be helped,” but anyway. So I went in the army. I went to army language school. I studied Japanese, and …

>> Did you face any discrimination in Korea?

>> Beg your pardon?

>> Did you face any discrimination or racism in Korea?

>> Well, yeah. In any situation, because of my face, I was often taken for the enemy, and so one thing that saved me was I knew a lot of swearing in American language. And I’d swear like that, and then they’d say, “Oh, he’s GI.” So, anyway.

8/30 호놀룰루, 하와이 (8)

>> My name is Earl Kalani Simerson. I went to Korea in 1950, July 1950. I followed after the 5th Regimental Combat Team had left before me. I was at that time at the [Indistinct] general’s office in 4th Chapter.

[ Chatter ]

>> You’re a local native Hawaiian. As a local native Hawaiian, what did you know about Korea and the Korean War before you went, and how did you feel about it after?

>> Before the Korean War, I didn’t know nothing about Korea, but after I went there, I left Korea. In Hawaii, well, we always had kimchi, so when I was in Korea, there was a lot of kimchi, so that was my meal, kimchi and rice. Still today, I still got kimchi and rice.

>> You had kimchi before you went to Korea?

>> Yeah.

[ Chatter ]

>> Wow.

>> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] kimchi.

[ Chatter ]

>> Tell me about your experience in the war. Your experience in the war and after.

[ Chatter ]

>> In the beginning, I saw a lot of casualties, and as a young boy, I never seen this in my life, and so I couldn’t eat for 11 days. I was so upset. And after that, I started to eat, understand I got to eat. Otherwise, I’d die. But I learned a lot about the Koreans. They were very nice people. Everywhere we went, they were taking care of every soldier, and otherwise, that’s about all [INAUDIBLE].

[ Chatter ]

>> You can talk about anything you want.

[ Chatter ]

>> Whenever you’re ready.

[ Chatter ]

>> Well, one of the things that we were there, we didn’t have supplies, so I never changed clothes for 3 months. That’s how bad. There was no supplies, no clothing.

[ Chatter ]

My clothes was just like leather. Most of us, every time we went to take a shower, everything was frozen, and so we couldn’t take showers but … And we used to burn houses to keep warm because you had no facilities, and so as we advanced, we’d stand under a house with a cigarette lighter, keep warm. That was it, but we had no winter clothing. By the time April came, 52 of the supplies came. It was too late, but that was because of the war started, and then America wasn’t in any war at that time so unprepared for it, the Korean War.

>> You know Hawaii didn’t become a state officially until 1959?

>> Yeah.

>> And you were sent to Korea in 1950. I don’t understand.

[ Chatter ]

>> Yeah, well, we were a territory of the United States.

>> I know, so did you volunteer, or were you drafted?

>> I volunteered in the Army.

>> Why would you want to volunteer for? Technically it wasn’t even your country.

>> Well, I volunteered in 1948. There was no jobs. Well, most of us all … After you got out of high school … Because of the second war, my parents went broke. We lost everything due to the Second World War so couldn’t go to college, so after I graduated from high school, joined the Army. Most of us all did. We joined the Army to get income, I guess, because at that time, there weren’t many jobs around.

[ Chatter ]

But that was one of the reasons why. Yeah.

[ Chatter ]

>> That makes me sad because you risked your life.

>> What’s that?

>> That makes me sad because you had to risk your life.

[ Chatter ]

It makes me sad because you had to risk your life for it.

>> Yes. When I think of it, oh, my god, I was lucky, but thank God.

[ Chatter ]

All my friends got wounded or were killed in action.

[ Chatter ]

So I’m thankful for what I have today.

[ Chatter ]

>> Thank you.

남아프리카 공화국 요하네스버그 (1)
>> My name is Denis Earp, Earp as in Wyatt Earp. I'm now 86 years old, but in 1950, when the Korean War broke out, I was still only 20, and I hadn't finished my flying training, but the government of South Africa asked for volunteers because for once, the United Nations was able to function as it should, by a pure accident of the Soviets having become angry at something or other, and so they didn't attend. Now at the time, the government decided that the best thing to do would be to send a fighter squadron. Having made some arrangements with the Americans so that we would pay for everything we used, all armament, fuel, aircraft, equipment, everything because all of us were volunteers, which I think makes it a little different story for many other countries. 1950, I spent in great tension following the progress of the Korean War down from the 38th Parallel down to the Pusan perimeter, the breakout at Imjin, the pursuit northwards because I was worried the war would be over before I could get there. I was a second lieutenant, as I said, still on flying training, and I didn't get my wings until December of 1950. Straight after that, Spitfire conversion and operational conversion, and then as soon as we could, we went to Korea, which I reached the end of May, 1951. Now it's a time long ago. Things are different now, but make no mistake. The Korean War was not a quarrel. It was a very big, very important, very violent war, and it made a point in stopping Soviet aggression because the manipulation of Korea was just a byproduct of the Cold War. China and Russia knew what was coming, and they were hoping to break the West's monopoly of resistance in the West. Strangely enough, I think it happened because an American foreign minister made a statement which the Chinese particularly misinterpreted. In an interview in, I think, the early '50s, he said which areas were vital for America, and he named them all over the West, but he did not mention Korea, so the Chinese and the North Koreans interpreted this as being a disengagement on the part of the United States, which it most definitely was not. But America was totally unprepared. When the Korean War broke out, South Korea was not ready for it. It was almost a miracle that the American logistics could reinforce the Pusan perimeter and mobilize allied forces quickly enough to stop having to retreat to Japan because then I think it would have been a very, very long war. In any case, as a second lieutenant, not a student of politics, just a young man, stupid as all young men are, I ended up in a very hot war. As a second lieutenant, my probability of surviving the first few combat missions were low, but you learn very quickly, or you don't survive, and quite a few of my friends were killed. Older and more experienced pilots were killed, and that's a bit of a shock to the system of a young man because you keep believing, "It cannot happen to me," but it does. And on my 65th combat mission, there was a Communist flat gunner who got lucky, and he shot me down, not immediately there, but I was able to fly for about 20 minutes, trying to get back to the lines, but I had a small fire in the cockpit. My feet were burning, and when I got to the point where I'd lost a lot of height, I knew I had to crash-land or bail out. Now the mountains in Korea are not conducive to safe forced landings, so I bailed, and I injured myself, and I had burned feet. I twisted my knee badly on landing, and 7 hours later, I was taken prisoner by the Chinese and then began a little more than 23 months of an experience which I wouldn't wish on anybody. To be a prisoner of the Communists is not a happy state of affairs, and I came very close to dying on several occasions, but by the grace of God, I didn't, and I was released after the armistice which was in July of 1953. I got out in August of '53 and was able to return home in reasonable shape, perhaps a little puzzled in my mind and a little troubled in my memories. So the war ended for me, but that war has not ended for Korea, and I think there's misery ahead for a long time. I hope it'll end peacefully, but I hope it'll still end in my lifetime, but it may not. >> Can you explain to us a little bit about your day-to-day experience at the POW camps? Because not a lot of people know what it means to be a prisoner of war. What did you eat? Were you able to wash yourself? Were you with other prisoners of war? How were the conditions like? How did you survive? >> Well, first of all, prisoners were not a common ... I beg your pardon. It's just my cell phone beeping. Prisoners were not at the moment very popular. They weren't prepared for them, neither the North Koreans nor the Chinese. Food, inadequate. No medical attention at all unless you were termed a progressive. If you offered any form of resistance or failed to cooperate, you were then classed as a reactionary, and the reactionaries didn't have a great future. So if in interrogation you resisted, remember that we'd been indoctrinated in the West to believe in the Geneva Convention. To the Chinese and the North Koreans, that was like a red flag to a bull, and immediately, if you pressed your point, you would end up in a hole in the ground, as I often did, tied with your elbows behind your back. Very little food. When it came, you ate like a dog, and your bodily functions were not catered for. You can imagine what that does to your morale after a few days but then if you're taken out and interrogation starts again or lessons. "You must study to learn the truth," was the big Communist message, and if you learn the truth, then you will have a happy daily life and we will take care of you. But if you didn't want to learn the truth and if you resisted, life was not pleasant. In the first winter at a place called [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] which was across on the Yalu River, a little way from the camp that I ended up in, about 1,500 men died, a lack of medicine, a lack of medication, a lack of food and extremely low temperatures, and the horror of that camp was that the ground was too hard to bury those who died, so they had to be laid on top of the ground and stacked until the spring came, and then they could be buried. Now that kind of environment doesn't do good for your ego. It's oppressive, and men sometimes cracked. They just couldn't take it anymore, and then they faced to the wall. Three days, they would die. We lightheartedly called it give-up-itis, but it was a serious problem. The mind definitely controls your body. If your mind says, "You've had enough. Die," you will die. If your mind says, "No. Let's stay with it. You've got a good chance of survival," and there was a lot of luck as an element. In the beginning as a prisoner, I was regularly interrogated, and we had to sit and listen to lectures every day. But later, I think particularly the Chinese realized that they were not getting anywhere, and they left us on our own. The North Koreans were particularly brutal captors. I spent a few weeks at an interrogation center outside of [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] which we called Park's Palace. Now Major Park was a very sadistic man, and he enjoyed torturing people, and torture might have been pleasant from his point of view, but it was not pleasant from the prisoner's point of view. But with a bit of luck, I survived Park's Palace. I survived a march from Pyongyang up to the Yalu River on foot and with prisoners who were not in good physical shape, and on that March, numerous prisoners died, again, bad physical condition, cold weather. The first snows came in. I was in a summer flying suit, and I got very cold, and I learned to my own horror that if I never saw snow again, pleasant as it may be to many people, I would not be sad at all. In brief, it was not a pleasant experience. I survived on the march when I got dysentery, and a friend of mine supported because if you got left behind, you knew that as soon as the group had moved along, there'd be a shot, and that would be the end. And my friend, Mikheli, physically helped me to survive the last few days until we got to [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. Unfortunately, he did at the cost of his own health because he was then diagnosed with a very, very poor heart, and after we got back to South Africa, a few months later, he died. So I owe him a life, but he gave his willingly. So that's, in brief, the story of a long time. >> You said General Park tortured. We don't understand what kind of torture you're talking. Can you explain what kind of torture? >> Well, if, for example, he wanted immediate information, such as if a prisoner had attempted to escape, then automatically, that meant it was a capitalist plot, and now you had to tell everything. Now one of the forms which was very unpleasant, they would tie you to a chair, kick the chair over backwards, put a cloth over your face and pour water on the cloth, which then sticks to your face, and you can't get breath. And after you've struggled a while, you lose consciousness, and when you come to, you're now sitting upright, coughing out water, and you get your breath back, and now we can do it all over again until you decide that you're going to give the information which they want. That was one form. Other forms were just direct beating. Some people were hung by their thumbs from a bin, and of course, they dislocated thumbs, dislocated shoulders, so physical torture is something that is not pleasant, and prisoners required a great deal of strength of character to endure and continue to resist. It didn't always help to lie because lies, as often do [INAUDIBLE]. So let's say that being put in a hole without food and water and tied up for a few days is also torture. Then that's not pleasant either. >> Were you able to wash yourselves? >> Not when you're in the hole. You had nothing. You mess yourself, and that does bad things to your morale. When you're not being interrogated or being punished, then you're with a group of prisoners who are all classed as reactionaries. In there, you had a reasonable chance of acting normally, bearing in mind that in a Communist system, there are always informers, and you don't know who they are, and the system works in this way that they ask the one informer what happened in that room on that morning, who said what, and he gives a report. Then they've got another informer who informer one doesn't know, and they ask him the same questions so the two informers can cross inform and get the truth. So you were never free to speak, even to your friends. If you wanted to speak, you would walk onto the open ground in front of the schoolhouse, which was prison, and there you could talk, but you had to be very careful because you could be turned in easily. >> Did they speak English? How did they interrogate you? >> Well ... >> Chinese or Korean ... >> Chinese ... >> They spoke English? >> Yeah. Some of them very good English. Some had been educated in universities in England and America. >> Okay. >> The Koreans also spoke very good English, and of course, there were always Russians that you knew were there because Russians smoked a cigarette which had a cardboard for the mouthpiece, so if you saw a couple of those lying on the ground, you knew Russians were giving the Chinese or the Koreans the questions to ask. >> And what kind of questions did they ask? >> Luckily, most of them were very stupid questions. Initially, they wanted to know, what squadron were you? Who was the squadron commander? Who was the second-in-command? How many men in your flight? How many airplanes? What kind of airplanes? How fast? How high? How many guns? How many bombs? How many rockets? Which are of no value except tactically, and after a few days, that interrogation has no further value except it builds up a pattern that the person being interrogated is going to answer, and I didn't realize that until right in the beginning. I had never been briefed [INAUDIBLE]. "What is your father's name?" I said, "That's got nothing to do with you." "Oh, you are not cooperating." "No, I'm not cooperating." "I'm sticking to the Geneva Convention." Then we get a long lecture on the lenient policy in which you not be killed, you will not be maltreated, provided you cooperate. Now on the question of my father's name, the guy was very polite about it. He said, "All right. If you won't answer, we will give you a little time to think about it," and they put me in a hole in the ground, and they tied me up, and they let me stay there for 2 days, and when I came out, the interrogator said, "Have you thought?" I said, "Yes, I've thought." He said, "And what is the answer? What is your father's name?" And I said, "I'm not going to tell you. It's got nothing to do with you." He said, "Come." He marched me up a hill with a squad of soldiers, stood me up against a tree. He didn't have the soldiers point a gun at me. He took out his pistol, and he cocked it, and he said, "Would you like a blindfold?" And I said, "No, thank you," and he aimed the pistol between my eyes, and he pulled the trigger, and it went click. I'll tell you, that's an incredible psychological letdown when you think you're going to die and you don't. So along that pattern, I realized, if there's a question, you've got to have an answer. Whether it's a lie or not is immaterial, but you will answer, and that's how interrogation builds up. Always the small questions first and then later the political questions, and that's what they were interested in, but we were not politicians. We were professional soldiers, second lieutenants who knew very little about a lot of things, but we survived. >> So did you eventually give your father's name? >> I gave my father's name. >> I think I heard that some of your worst torturers were women. Tell me about that. >> No, I never had women torturers. There were women nurses that we saw in the hospitals, but we never got to a hospital because we were reactionaries. >> And about lice. >> Lice? >> Dealing with lice because you weren't showering. >> Well, lice is something I'd never had in my life, but after being along on a march and stop at a village, they put you in a room. The next morning, you itch, and the itch gets worse, and then somebody says, "The reason you're itching is you've got lice," so if you've got a spare minute, get into your clothes, find the lice and kill them. It makes you feel better, and you can imagine if you're tied up, the torture of having lice all over you. For somebody who's not used to it, maybe for the locals it didn't matter, but for me, it meant a lot. >> And some prisoners had to eat lice to survive, I heard. >> Well, you ate whatever you could. If you could take something clean off the side of the road in the summer, eat it because your food was essentially two bowls, small bowls, of rice per day, but on that you actually suffering from avitaminosis, beriberi, eye night blindness, illness for which you could be given medicine if you were not a reactionary. >> And in the camp, were you mixed with other nationalities? >> Yes, mainly Americans, but in the camp I was in, there were some Turks. There were Filipinos, the South Africans, and I'm trying to think who else. My memory is not as good as it should be, possibly because I don't think back to those days with any great pleasure. >> Were you mixed? >> Yes. >> Or were you segregated? >> Mixed. >> Mixed. >> Interrogation, solitary, only by yourself. >> I hope many survived like you did. >> South Africans, eight. >> Out of how many prisoners of war? >> Eight. >> There were eight prisoners of war, but they all survived? >> South Africans, yes. >> [INAUDIBLE]. >> The last man was shot down 3 days before armistice, and he was perhaps the luckiest guy ever because he lost 40 pounds in weight in 40 days, and he was never seriously interrogated. >> On armistice, which was July 27th, 1953, you were released? >> Not then. We got released much later. I had made a mistake early on when I was a prisoner. They said, "You are an officer." I said, "Yeah, second lieutenant, very senior." They said, "You must know many things about what bombs do." I said, "I suppose so." They said, "Well, we are subject to unwarranted attacks by the Americans and the Wall Street warmongers, so you will now show us how to build a bombproof bomb shelter." I said, "Okay." So I explained to them how I thought a bomb shelter should be built quite incorrectly, but I then was the foreman, and the Chinese built according to my directions, and we'd almost finished when we were attacked by fighters from my wing, and the bomb shelters collapsed, as I knew they would, but when I was in the bomb shelter, I stuck close to the wall. The guard went in deep and when the shelter collapsed broke his back and killed him. So then I spent a very unpleasant few days being beaten up, and after that, I built the bomb shelters, and our whole platoon of Chinese, they were the supervisors. And because of that, I was tried by a Chinese court. I was given a defense lawyer who pleaded for the death penalty, and he got it. They sentenced me to death for sabotage, but then they said they would not execute the sentence yet, but every time I went for interrogation after that, they'd remind me, and that's why I didn't get released too quickly after armistice, and I didn't know if they would release me until the very end. So I got released in the end of August. >> One month later. >> Mm-hmm. >> But did you know that there was an armistice signed? >> I knew there was an armistice. >> How were you informed about it? >> Well, first of all, we notice stoppage of air flights, the first thing. Then we noticed the Chinese were not quite so hostile. Within 2 days, they formed us up on the playground, and we knew they were going to announce armistice, and we as prisoners said, "Don't show any emotion." So the Chinese commander got up and spoke in Chinese, and then it gets translated into English, and nobody moved. The Chinese commander got very angry and yelled at the interpreter and said, "Did you tell them?" And he said, "Yes," and he told us again, and nobody moved, and this puzzled the Chinese no end. They couldn't understand it, and it gave us a great deal of satisfaction. >> So you all planned this. >> We planned it. >> Wow. All different nationalities, you all just remained calm. >> And that included the people we knew were informers and traitors because they knew we'd tear them to pieces if they didn't. >> Did they come back? Did they return? >> I believe quite a few of them faced court marshals in the States, at any rate. Sad, but that's how people are. You look after yourself. >> [INAUDIBLE]. >> When you're starving, you can bribe a man very easily with a bowl of very inferior food or maybe some medicine for serious illnesses. >> Oh, show your hands. It breaks my heart. >> We're not sure what caused that, but it damaged the skin, and I think that was because at one stage in the winter when it was very, very cold, they would stand me outside and tie me to a pole with no cover for my hands, and they'd wait just until the frostbite started, and then they would take me into a warm room. Now I don't know if you've ever had frostbite, but when it thaws, it is extremely painful, and this was a very easy way that didn't threaten my life but softened me. You tend to become less resistant when you're treated that way. In any case, I survived those days, and I came back, and I managed to survive another war which lasted 20 years, and in the end, I ended up as the chief of the Air Force, so I couldn't really complain about my career. >> A general. >> From second lieutenant to a general. >> But most of all, that's just so fascinating because most people ... You didn't just go fight and return, but you suffered for almost 2 years as a prisoner, like you said, with your morale, usurping the dignity out of the human being. Most people would want nothing to do with any war, period, so why did you decide to stay in the military in the force? >> Well, I found that I'd enjoyed my part of the war. I didn't like the part being a prisoner, but by accident of circumstances, I had several flight commanders shut down, and there were no replacements, so they made me as a second lieutenant an acting flight commander, and I found I had an aptitude for leading a flight in combat and achieving great success in attacks on ground targets. So when I came back, I had a choice. I could leave, or I could stay, but at that stage, things were reasonably peaceful, and my option would have been to go to airways and fly as an airline pilot, but my nature was not of that ilk. It wouldn't have worked for me, so I stayed, and it wasn't long in this troubled country that we were in conflict again. So I found I had a natural aptitude for military operations, and that's why I stayed. >> And you said you went back to Korea. Could you just briefly explain your first impression? >> 1986, I in fact went on an official visit to Taiwan, and while we were there, we contacted Mr. [INAUDIBLE] who was the then Korean minister of, I think, prisoner affairs, and he said, "Well, why don't you come and visit? Officially, we cannot admit you." They had just at that time refused entry to our minister of defense and our minister of foreign affairs, but in my case, they decided I should go. They treated me like a king. We'd be riding in an elevator up to that very tall building in Seoul 65 floors high, and Mr. [INAUDIBLE] would say to the people, "This man here is a veteran of the Korean War," and they would all smile and come and want to shake my hand, and then he said, "And he was shot down and was a prisoner for 2 years," and then they all wanted to hug me. That's how they were. They were just grateful to see a veteran of the Korean War. They treated me like royalty. The Air Force invited me to a dinner. I was able to lay a wreath at a memorial for the Cluster Regiment on the Imjin River, and as I said, it was a wonderful experience to see the Korea which was devastated rebuilt. And it's interesting. People ask me, "You go to a Korean War, and you didn't even win. What did you achieve?" I say, "Well, let's look at this way. North Korea is the most repressive Stalinist country in the world where there is no freedom, great human rights violations and terrible abuses of people. South Korea is the most progressive open society that you can imagine, and you say we didn't win? I think we did." >> I think so too. >> Good. >> Actually, I know so because I'm here. >> All right. But remember, I was talking then in 1986. I know things have changed a bit now, but South Korea is still prospering. I think your economy is about third or fourth in the world, and I'm glad. >> Well, I hope you're very proud. >> Thank you. >> Thank you.
남아프리카 공화국 요하네스버그 (2)
>> Hy Kim, are you going to have an interview with me about my time in Korea? Well it's so long ago, 1951. I was 20 years old, turned 21 there, and it was a great experience. We had just received our wings, qualified as pilots with few hours over qualifying, when they said it looked as though the Korean War would be over fairly soon, and we needed that experience. It didn't turn out that way. It all went on until 1953. So I was in 1951, it was a hectic year. It were very experienced pilots gone on the original squadron, and even with them and with us joining we had heavy losses. Almost 29 in the year 1951. Out of the total that we lost the war, 35. So in initial stages the anti aircraft was very bad. But I'm so pleased that I made it because it was an experience, a great experience. >> What was your rank at the time? >> I was a second lieutenant. Just shortly received my wings and we were commissioned when I was a second lieutenant. >> And how old were you? >> I was 20 years old then, turned 21 during my tour there. >> How about the rest of the pilots? >> Well as I said, you know, they were many of World War II pilots, they were just completing their tour already and were returning back to base and we then went as a replacement. And the powers to be thought it would be a great experience before the war would stop and it didn't, in fact, as I said it continued until '53. >> Did you volunteer or were you ...? >> Yes. >> Why? >> Well, you know what? I was in Korea, decided on the Air Force as my career and my country had committed to helping the United Nations in the war so it was quite a natural thing. You volunteer and sign on the dotted line and off we went, you know? And looking back, I'm pleased about the great experience. The sad part about it having lost so many close friends. It was such a short period of time. >> During the war you lost many friends? >> Yes. Well as I said, you know, it was just in that one first year, 1951, those 29 pilots were lost. We lost a total of 35 so in the initial stages. The anti aircraft and so forth was really hectic, but as that sort of decreased, the losses diminished also. And towards the end, they didn't fly the Mustang anymore like I did. They flew the Saber, which is not as vulnerable, you know, as the Mustang was. >> The Mustang is very, very famous. Why is it so famous? >> It started as a great aircraft in World War II, and it was vulnerable in that it had a coolant system, wiping, running, you know, and being so easily damaged by anti aircraft fire. That was the only drawback about it, but it handled well. The endurance was very long. Compared to the Spitfire that I flew previously, which had a very limited flight endurance, the Mustang had a very long endurance. They were flights up to 7 hours, you know, with dropped tanks and so forth. >> Do you remember a specific battle that was important to South Africa? So in South Africa, only Air Force? >> Yes. Oh, no, that's wrong. The Air Force was the main contribution that we made on two [INAUDIBLE] squadron. Oversize squadron because replacements, you know, took quite a while because of the distance and so forth. They were only also Army contingents, officers, [Indistinct] to a British regiment. A contra member or fan, I taught 10 of them. Also shared in the war, on the ground forces with the British. >> Well among other United Nations, there weren't too many Air Force, right? >> Air Forces contributing, there was your UCEF and our Air Force, and then the British also had aircraft flying from carriers. The Australians had [INAUDIBLE], jet aircraft. Not that successful in the role that they had to do in ground attack after the [INAUDIBLE] in England, and it was a good aircraft but not quite suited for that war. Let's see, I can't think of the other aircraft, the other Air Forces. >> Did you get to see any civilians? Korean civilians? >> Out by [INAUDIBLE] down in the south of Korea, there was a naval base not far away and there was a very nice, in the sea, that we could go swimming. And we went there and I met quite a number of the young sailors, would meet us, you know, we were like foreigners and they were inquisitive and we had chats and what have you, and talking to, you know, people from the embassy, that the present attaché is from the Navy and he knows [INAUDIBLE] as well [INAUDIBLE]. So we had very enjoyable, in our off periods. We went [INAUDIBLE] in the south, was our main base but then we'd fly up to Seoul with a forward base and we did a lot of the operations we did from there. >> And you visited Korea again? >> Yes. >> When? >> Three visits. >> Wow. >> And my last visit was in June or was it July, and I was very, very pleasantly surprised to be decorated by a decorations and presidential decoration that the minister presented me with in July, it was, I believe. >> Last year? July 2016? >> Yes. >> Wow. >> So that was quite something. >> Korea is very different from when you first went. >> Whoa. You know, it's quite unbelievable. I tried to tell people what a country was ravaged, you know, with the enemy going through Seoul right down to the south and then being pushed back again, and to see that country now, how it's been rebuilt. It's just unbelievable just to see the road system and the building. It's so modern and very, very well organized and tidy. Very, very impressive. It's quite amazing that the industrial development is fantastic. >> You must be very proud. >> Oh, yes, and I'm pleased that I made that tiny, tiny little contribution. >> It was not tiny, it was very big. It was very big. And when you were involved with the association, do you remember serving with some of the members of the association in Korea? >> A member of? >> The Korean War Veterans Association here in South Africa. Your comrades. >> Yes. >> Yes. Do you remember? Do you serve in the same unit? >> Well we only had the one unit. Two squadrons. >> Two squadrons. How many were in each squadron? >> No we were only one squadron. >> One squadron. How many? >> Well pilots, more or less 20 at the time, pilots and they were replaced as they completed their tour and [INAUDIBLE] and so forth. >> You must have been very close? >> Oh, yes. Very, very close bond of the people who served in Korea, but there's so few left at the moment. >> I know. >> Like today, there are only two of us. My friend, [INAUDIBLE], was a prisoner of war, he would also have been here but he had another commitment and what have you. But I'm not sure off hand, but I don't know whether we have more than 10 or so pilots left, you know? A very good friend of mine passed away last week. [INAUDIBLE]. >> Did you say you were also captured? >> Say again. >> Were you also captured? >> No, no, no. I was fortunate. I spent just over 4 hours on the ground, very far north of Pyongyang, near the Yalu River, but I was fortunate I was picked up by helicopter after about, just over 4 hours. >> How did you get stranded on the ground? Why were you on the ground? >> I had to bail out of my aircraft. >> Why? >> Because it wouldn't fly anymore it was, so I had to bail out by parachute. >> Really? By yourself? >> Yes, a single seat aircraft, you know, it's a fighter aircraft. >> And who picked you up? South Africans? >> No, no, no. A helicopter that was launched from an American ship, the Gunston Hall. This is Gunston Hall. >> But how did they see you? >> Well they were given the map reference and I could navigate there, and as it happened, it was very mountainous there and [INAUDIBLE] and I could hear this chuck, chuck, chuck, chuck, chuck come from an ACE51 Sikorsky approaching me and so forth. And I'll never forget that welcome site when he hovered, he didn't land he just hovered and they lowered a rope and they hoisted me up and the pilot turned around and shook my hand, and then we went out again and on the way out we were fired at again and was hit a few times. When we were escorted again by fighters going out, and I wasn't aware what the damage was on the aircraft, but on the first approach to land on the ship we had to go around again. He couldn't land because with the controls I think there was something wrong with the controls. And then on the second attempt we landed and so forth. And then I was taken to the sick bay and when I arrived there there was an American pilot from [INAUDIBLE] that had been shot down and he unfortunately lifted too late before he decided to bail out, and he was fairly badly burnt, you know, on his hands and his face and so forth. I had the advantage that one our pilots had also lifted a bit late so we all knew if the temperature started going off the clock, it was time for you to make sure that you got out in time before it burst into flames. >> The helicopter that picked you up, was it United Air Force or Navy pilots? >> Naval pilot, yes. >> Wow. >> USS Gunston Hall. Later on somebody visited America and per chance, one of our newspapers met the captain of the ship who was at the time, and I've got some newspaper cuttings and so forth, you know, and he also explained, repeated the story again and what have you. That's quite a small world. >> So he was a Naval pilot who picked you up? >> Yes, yes. >> And you got to meet him again? >> No, no, unfortunately not. >> You later learned about him? >> Yes. The newspaper man from South Africa visited America and by chance met that captain of the ship. It was a captain of the USS Gunston Hall at the time. >> What was it called? USS? >> Duston Hall was the name of the ship. >> Dunston Hall, and the Navy pilot was from that ship. USS Gunston Hall. >> Yeah. >> Wow. You know it would be so fascinating for you to have a reunion with some of the people because I interview many veterans, and they talk about each other, you know, like British talk about Australian. British talk about, you know, Americans. So it would be nice to do a reunion. Did you have any Australians? Did you see any Australians? >> Once there were some Australian pilots who visited us and we had quite a party and so forth but they were, you know, at another base quite a distance. But we were three American squadrons with our squadron, formed the 18 Fighter Bomber [INAUDIBLE]. And we had very, very good relationship with the three American squadrons. Very, very good experience. >> What did you do for rest when you didn't have missions? >> Well the main thing was swimming, as I mentioned, you know. Near that naval base. I think that was, fortunately, I was there only in summer. If you talk to people who were there in winter, that's another story. >> I think you were fortunate. >> Very fortunate. >> Yes. >> So time off ... >> How long was your service? How many months? >> I was only there for over 5 months, and I've completed the ... >> In 1951? >>... the normal tour we had to do was 75 missions, but I went down on my 73rd one and when I got back, you know, the helicopter picked me up and then I went, was taken by small ship to a island, Ryodo Island, off the Wonsan harbor and then with a very icy sort of a trip in the [INAUDIBLE] aircraft, went back to my base and so forth. And when I walked into the office, because we had lost so many of our young, of course, already, as I walked in he said, "Mike, pack your bags, you're going home." So I still had two, three missions to go, but he said, "You've had enough." Because there were so many of our course, you know, who had been shot down. >> So on average, how many missions did you fly per day? >> The most, possibly four. On average, it's difficult to say actually, because as I said, we'd fly missions and then you'd have a day or so off and then you fly missions again. By far the most I think we ever did was four, because it was mostly long missions, you know? Two hours, three, four hours. So it varied a lot depending on what type of mission it was and so forth. >> And you would look for the enemies? >> Well our main, our task was ground attack. We mainly looked for vehicles bringing down ammunition and supplies and what have you. >> And you would shoot them? >> And then we would [INAUDIBLE] them out. And I became so clever and so good at camouflage, eventually they didn't travel by day at all. They'd only travel by night. And during the day they would hide their vehicles so well it was quite something. But it's quite amazing, actually, one of my early missions I flew with one of the experienced pilots, [INAUDIBLE] officer from World War II, who was a ground attack pilot. And I could then learn from him and we all learned from him. We were a number of [INAUDIBLE] young pilot. We flew out to another target and he spotted some vehicles, and he made his first attack and fired and then when the first vehicle burst into flames, we could also then make out the other vehicles but I'm sure if we'd flown past there, we would never have seen the vehicles. So it was his experience that helped up and so we also became quite experienced. >> There were solo missions. >> Say again. >> Solo missions, or did you fly alongside? >> No, flight of four. >> Four. >> We're normally a flight of four and then we did the big [INAUDIBLE] we did on Pyongyang, we had 64. We had the biggest with 64 aircraft. >> Sixty four aircraft? Not all South African though? >> Oh, no, no, no, no. The three American squadrons and our squadron, so we make up a quarter of the squadron. >> And how many losses did you suffer from that one, out of the 64? >> On that one we lost the one pilot. It was quite a sad loss because at the time he was a South African high jumping champion, you know. >> What's a high jumping champion? >> Pardon. >> Can you explain to me about the jumper? You said lost his ... >> An athletic high jumping when you have two poles and a crossbar. >> And he was a champion? >> At that stage he started with an American roll, I think it was called, [INAUDIBLE] quite a lot now [INAUDIBLE] they sort of go over on their back to cross the crossbar, but his record stood for several years after that. South African high jumping record. >> Did he [INAUDIBLE]? >> That was a sad loss. He would have made a very good rugby player. He was a great rugby player, also. Twenty years old. >> He got shot down? His plane got shot down? >> Say again. >> His plane got shot down? His plane? >> Yes, yes, yes. He called up, he said, "I've been hit. I'm heading for the coast but I don't think I'll make it," and then he was cut off. I think the aircraft possibly burst into flames or so. >> Do you know when that happened? When the pilot's aircraft is down and his body is burned, then how do you retrieve the remains? >> Oh, no. There are very few remains. We lost quite a percentage of our pilots, which never recovered because [INAUDIBLE] it's on the other side of the bomb line. >> Not even the dog tags? >> No. Very, very few were recovered if they were near the bomb line, you know. The diving line between enemy forces and our own forces. No, I can't quote you the numbers now. I know of a person, I got close friends with him, he was a captain and a very experienced pilot from World War II. I think later on the area where he went down, had been recovered and was in our own friendly territory. They traced the remains, and he was buried in the memorial cemetery down in Pusan. >> I will be going there. >> Is it? >> Yes. >> Well there you will see, I can't remember off hand now, possibly seven or so of the graves. And the other people who were not recovered because they were too far into enemy territory. >> I'm going to the memorial today. >> Say again. >> I'm going to the memorial today, and I will pay my respects. >> Oh, I appreciate that. >> Thank you so much. >> My pleasure.
남아프리카 공화국 프리토리아
>> My name is Dirk Louw, and I am the president of the South African Korean War Veterans Association in South Africa. I have been serving for the past 4 years after being elected as a descendant to serve as the president of this association in South Africa. The South African contribution started in Korea on the 4th of August, 1950, when the South African government decided to answer the call for support for the United Nations effort in Korea, and a total of 826 South African airmen and ground crew served in Korea over this period until 1953. The first forces left by ship on the 5th of September, 1950, and over this period, a total of 36 members paid the highest price. Two of the members were ground crew, and the 34 was pilots, and then a 37th member died 8 months after returning to South Africa, due to the horrendous conditions he had to be in during his days in a prisoner of war camp. Over this period, the South African Air Force has leased aircraft from the United States, and 74 Mustang aircrafts was written off over this period, as well as five Sabres. The South African contribution over this period was highly ... Okay, I'm going to start this portion, just this portion. Over the period of 1950 until 1953, the South African forces lost 34 pilots and two ground crew, and they lost 74 of the 94 Mustang aircraft leased to the South African Air Force and five of the 24 Sabres that was leased. The South African Air Force contribution was seen as a major contribution towards the war, and the majority of the pilots were highly decorated for their efforts. Currently, I am serving as the president mainly to ensure that I look after the welfare of the members of the Korean War Veterans Association and then also to ensure that I document all the information related to the heroic deeds that these men did during the war. I have a monthly newsletter which I then produce and which I distribute to various countries, where people are that are interested in reading this newsletter. We have several functions during the year, which are related to the Korean War, but we also attend several other memorial services in South Africa, where veterans are generally remembered. In South Africa, we have three full memorial sites where the Korean names appear. One is at Air Force Base SWAT group at the memorial. The other one is at Union buildings, and the third one is in Capetown. I don't know what to say more. >> No, that's perfect. Oh, how many are there now and ... >> Okay. >> ... active? >> The current situation is that the members are getting old, and at this moment, according to my documentary proof that I have on the registry of people that have belonged to the Korean War Veterans Association, and we must please understand that there are a lot of members that never belonged to the association, but the members that are registered with me are, at this moment, 21 Korean War veterans, which consists of ground crew, as well as pilots, and then we have 19 wives, as well as 35 widows. The memorial services that are held are normally attended by myself and then one of our senior Korean War veterans, General Herb and his wife, and the Korean-specific memorials, like the Armistice Day in June, is normally attended by the majority of the veterans, as well as the majority of the descendants. So we have a huge contribution by the members on that occasion. We have several small functions during a year. We try to see where we can accommodate the needs of the members, and then as well as where there are a lot of the ... See, I can't say a lot of. >> It's okay. >> Okay, I can start over at this portion again. They are several small events during a year where there are associations in South Africa, like, for instance, the International Youth Foundation, which normally wants to do some dances for the veterans and entertainment, and the South African volunteers went to Korea, and they went to a country they never have heard of before, and they set foot in a country where they have never been before, and they have defended people that they've never met before. I'm proud to say today that I am very honored to be part of this association, and like one of the senior veterans said on the question why he really fought in the war, [INAUDIBLE] said that as everybody has a quest, it was their quest to help those that couldn't help themselves.
네덜란드 암스테르담 (1)

>> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]

>> My name is Tom Harsalehr.

>> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]

>> I’m 87 years old.

>> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]

>> When I was 22, I left, in 1950 … January 1953, and I came back in 1954.

>> But it was great.

>> It was radio work.

>> In Korea, my job was a radio man. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]

>> I was a radio man, and I was up with the commanders, commanding officers. My children know nothing at all about my past, and I want to keep it that way.

>> Why?

>> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]

>> Because I lost my two best friends there.

>> Hmm. How?

>> Killed.

>> Killed in action.

>> Killed in action.

>> Hmm, it must have been very painful.

>> Mm-hmm.

>> But you served, and you made a sacrifice, and something great came out of it, and aren’t you proud? Don’t you want to share that with your children?

>> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]

>> I’ve always found it extremely difficult to talk about this.

>> Even after almost 70 years?

>> I have everything here and here. It’s for me and not for other.

>> Well, how about maybe not your personal, but how about your … Well, how about this? In war …

>> Yes.

>> There’s a lot of pain and suffering, but sometimes, there’s also humanity.

>> Mm-hmm.

>> Like caring for the civilians, kids, I hear a lot about veterans remembering, soldiers remembering orphans. Do you remember anything like a touching story of humanity? You mentioned “M*A*S*H,” something laughing, something funny.

>> I got three friends over there, three dogs.

>> Three dogs?

>> Yes.

>> You had three dogs?

>> Three dogs.

>> Oh.

>> That’s after the war.

>> After the war, when you were a cook?

>> Yes.

>> Yes, do you remember their names?

>> I’ve got everything. No, I don’t know, but I can give to the dogs anything.

>> Yeah, dogs are man’s best friend. Well, so you mentioned that two of your best friends died, and I know 124 Dutch men, servicemen died. What do you think is … What do you think other people should know about the Dutch service?

>> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]

>> Something different about Dutch service than other …

>> You mean what they do over there in Korea?

>> Whether what you did or what you think is very important, like protecting …

>> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]

>> … other soldiers, and …

>> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]

>> I will need … He doesn’t want to to discuss the extraordinary things that were particularly Dutch because …

>> No.

>> … of his friends.

>> No, but … No, I’m not talking about personal story. I’m talking about, well, numbers. You’re part of the Association. What … Why is the Association important? Why do you think Dutch or the rest of the world should remember this war? Because it’s called the Forgotten War.

>> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]

>> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]

>> Yeah, I …

>> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]

>> Yeah, no, that’s my friends [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]

>> I have … These are my comrades here, but we never talk about the things that we have personally experienced in the war.

>> I know, but I’m not talking about personal experience.

>> No.

>> I’m talking about …

>> No? Okay.

>> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]

>> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]

>> The important thing about this Association …

>> The Forgotten War.

>> … is that it’s … It remembers the Forgotten War that Dutch history books forgot, literally, and it is hardly taught at school [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]

>> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]

>> I was introduced to the Korea Association by a Mr. Ralph who came to see me at home and told me about this, and that’s why I became a member.

>> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]

>> I go to the annual ceremonies.

>> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]

>> And I accompany all the … all my comrades here to the grave.

>> Explain to me about … You wanted to explain to me about the dog tags.

>> This is for the dog. Listen. In Korea, when you’re on the line, and you have them. This one and when you are dead or killed, then she take this. She take this.

>> Okay, mm-hmm, ah.

>> But the medics, she coming, and she take this one. Then she take this one, and then she know who you are.

>> Identification.

>> So you have the two of them. One is used if you are killed, and then the medics come along to pick you up.

>> Yeah.

>> And they just take the other tag and know who you are?

>> The medics take this one, and you have this one.

>> And because it’s stuck between your teeth, you don’t lose it.

>> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]

>> Well, I am very, very glad that you have both.

>> Everyone present is glad that you have both.

>> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]

>> It’s been hanging in my bedroom for 60 years.

>> I’m very grateful. Last question: Your tie, explain to me about your tie. I love …

>> Your [FOREIGN LANGUAGE].

>> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]

>> My [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] that’s the Korean [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]

>> Association.

>> The Korean Association tie …

>> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]

>> … with the Indian emblem of the second division.

>> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]

>> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] forwards and afterwards.

>> Yes, the emblem that was on the sleeves, when they went out there, the Indian was looking forwards, and when they came back to Holland, the Indian was looking backwards to Korea.

>> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]

>> On the right or …

>> On the right or the left?

>> On the left, it’s looking forward.

>> Oh.

>> Yeah.

>> And that … What’s that looking?

>> That …

>> It’s looking on the …

>> That’s only the [FOREIGN LANGUAGE].

>> It’s just the Association tie.

>> Yeah.

>> Hmm.

>> You like it?

>> I love it.

>> You want it? You want to have it?

>> He’s looking to the right, so he was going out there.

>> You want one?

>> Yeah.

>> Last question, have you visited Korea?

>> Yes, 2 years ago.

>> Tell me about it.

>> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]

>> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]

>> November 2015, he was there.

>> All different, very, very different, when we come to Korea, we see only one thing: water, sand and [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] very bad. In Seoul, one bridge, and now … [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. You’ll … In Seoul, you have only one street [FOREIGN LANGUAGE].

>> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]

>> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]

>> There’s only one street which was paved.

>> Only one street, for the pigs, and rest of the land, nothing.

>> Mm-hmm, the rest of the land were just …

>> The houses, very …

>> … no roads.

>> Oh, very bad, very bad [FOREIGN LANGUAGE].

>> That was the first time.

>> And after that, I come back.

>> And the only time [FOREIGN LANGUAGE].

>> When you were a soldier, when you went out, then.

>> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]

>> And now?

>> And now?

>> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]

>> Things have improved so much it seems as if we are holding back. We are now primitive. They are very advanced.

>> Yeah [FOREIGN LANGUAGE].

>> They are way ahead.

>> Well, I hope that you saw that, and you were very, very proud.

>> Okay, thank you.

>> Thank you.

네덜란드 암스테르담 (2)
>> I am Case Mutzhaven, born January the 5th, 1928. I went to Korea on March 16th, 1951. When the war broke in Korea, I was, at that time, in Boston for 3 months to take over some ships: the USS Rinehart and the USS Burrows. I was still a good face on board. March 16th, I went to Korea, and I came back June 21, '52, and there was a celebration of my daughter. She was 1 year old. I had never seen her before. I was married just before I went to Korea. Yes, it was a very hard time. But I was in the Navy, of course, and at that time, we are serving in the Yellow Sea in Korea to kite the jeep carriers, were in there for planes who bombardments in Korea, and we have ... Also, every 3 weeks, we went back to Japan, Sasebo, to rest and to fulfill our equipment, and then we go back to the Yellow Sea again. Once we are also on the east coat, and we enter the Bay of Busan, and that was the celebration of 175 days of shooting at Busan to the trains who are entering to go from the North to the South for things to bring for the soldiers there. In the bay, there was ... Do you know Busan on the east coast? It is in the north, and there are the three ships, and every 120 degrees, we are shooting in Busan. There was 175 days of shooting, and when you look at the looking glasses, you see that everything is standing alone. Okay. No, and that is ... And what we have done there, it was very difficult things in the Yellow Sea. At night, there were also fisherman's vessels, small vessels, and they had a radio on board, but they don't know the procedures there. So when an American spotted on the PPI and spoke and they asked for the code for friend or foe, when they don't answer within 1 minute, they shoot, and that happens there. So we had several people on board who lost their legs, and it was very bad. So we talked together that we make an opportunity that we can send telegraphs at night to those vessels to protect those vessels, and we did. So I sat there along the board. When I came on board of a vessel, my contact with the captain, and I gave him a hand, and they can go to sleep, and I sit behind the radio, and I know the the procedures of course, and so we protected those vessels. It was a good thing. >> You were the past president of the association. >> Yes. Yes. >> When was the association founded? >> It was founded in 1977. >> Oh, wow! >> And it has been about 40 years this year. Forty years this year, yeah. Forty years. >> So 4,000 members fought from the Netherlands, right? And how many are surviving right now, and how many members are in the association? >> The members of the association, all over there is about ... >> Two hundred and seventy-four. >> No. No. No. There's only the veterans, not the whole. In all, there is about 500? >> Yeah. >> About 500 members. >> Five hundred members. >> And from the 500 members, there are 275 veterans from the 5,000, more than 5,000. The percent is that we have more casualties in the Korean War than the Americans, which is 30. >> Right. You're right. >> Yeah, 124. >> Yes, out of 5,000. >> Out of 5,000. It was a lot. >> That's more than 20 percent. >> Yeah, more than 20 percent. Yeah. >> Because Americans, 1.8 million fought. You're right. Wow. Wow. Well, what do you think ... Again, what do you think is ... What are you so proud of with the Dutch in the war? Let's just say all the presidents of different organizations meet and brag about, "Well, we did this." What would you say about Dutch contributions? >> The contribution was very good, especially in the Army. But in the Navy, we only were on the open sea. I one time was on Incheon, on land, and also in Busan. We also rescued, and we tried to rescue a pilot who was down in the Yellow Sea. We came there with his parachute, and behind his parachute, he was already drowned. So we brought him to Busan for the cemetery there. >> American pilot? >> American pilot, yeah. I was finding that was [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> Do you remember other nations, other people? Americans, obviously, but do you remember others? >> Yes. When we got to the vessels, then we go by helicopter or by slope to go to the vessels. And when I got back to the vessel from the destroyer of Australia, the Warramunga, I slept there. That was a very good membership for the people there. >> Well, explain to me a little bit about your medals. >> My medals? >> Yeah, you have a lot of medals. >> Yeah, I have a lot of medals. This is the Knight of the Order of O'Ryan. This medal is the medal of the 4 days walking in the Netherlands. I did it twice. That is the United Nation medal. You know them, yes. And this is the war medal of Korea, and that's the peace medal. >> Talking about peace, you know that the Korean War never ended? >> Never ended, yeah. No. No. Still an armistice in this moment. Yeah, and I'm convinced that it will be this century that says, "We'll unify the whole peninsula." >> Well, I hope this century! I hope sooner than the century, but yes. >> I said within this century, okay? It can be next year but then also over 50 years. >> Hopefully in many of the veterans' lifetime we will see a unified Korea. >> But you don't know what Trump and the new president of Korea are doing. I don't know what's happened with him. >> And we don't know what's going on with the North Koreans either. >> North Korea, no. >> Well, have you been ... Last question. Have you been back to Korea? >> Yes, several times. >> Several times? >> Yes. Yes, the first time was with the Minister of Defence in 2001, and I was also convinced that the people were very friendly. That is so kind, and then I was also in 2003 there, 2007 with an invitation from Mr. Moon, and I was in his castle. Mr. Moon, you know that? Have you ever been there? No, you've never been there? >> Well, again, thank you so much for your service, and on behalf of the Korean people, I appreciate your sacrifice. Thank you. >> You're welcome.
네덜란드 암스테르담 (3)
>> My name is Jolke Rijsdijk. I born in [INAUDIBLE] in 1928 and served in [INAUDIBLE] versus the Korean ... >> Volunteer. >> Volunteer. >> Volunteer >> ... Volunteer in 1950 after 2 years in Indonesia service. I awarded the Medal of Honor from Indonesia and Korea, [INAUDIBLE], the medal of [INAUDIBLE] ... >> United [INAUDIBLE]. >> United Nations. >> [INAUDIBLE] Korean War Medal. >> And I was in Korea in 1950 with about the [INAUDIBLE]. After shooting in the range where there's the American troops, they say to us, "You can come to the front. You are ready for shooting everywhere every day." So we started in 1950 to go to the front line, first to Taegu, afterwards to Suwon and later to [INAUDIBLE]. >> Kusongpo-ri. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> Above [INAUDIBLE] Hoengsong. >> Hoengsong. >> Hoengsong. >> Hoengsong. >> Hoengsong. >> Hoengsong. >> Hoengsong. >> And [INAUDIBLE] by the Chinese troops. We started to go to help three to five because the Chinese held the North Koreans in force, so on the upper side of the street [INAUDIBLE] died [INAUDIBLE] ... >> Preacher? Preacher? >> [INAUDIBLE]. >> ... priest died, and the paid boss died with 15 other guys, two corporal sergeants and so on. So [INAUDIBLE] little bit. >> What does this mean? Were you an artillerist? Right here. >> Combat rifle. >> Combat rifle. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> Several days on the front line. >> Yeah. >> Ah, oh. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> If you are 90 days in the front line, you get from the Americans the Combat Rifle. It's the one. >> [INAUDIBLE]. >> Means that you have 90 days on front ... >> Ninety days on the front line, yeah. >> ... on the front line. >> Yeah, yeah, yeah. >> Straight? Ninety days straight? >> [INAUDIBLE]. >> Straight? Ninety days straight? >> Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. >> Straight on the line. >> Yeah, yeah. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> Radio man. >> Uh-huh. >> [INAUDIBLE] people I go with in the radio, and afterwards, North Korea, I came back in [INAUDIBLE] 40 years by the [INAUDIBLE] things. >> [INAUDIBLE] things. >> Connections. >> Connections, yeah. Telephone. >> Connections. >> Telephone, ah. >> Radio. >> Wireless operator. >> Oh, wow. >> I was wireless operator ... >> [INAUDIBLE] wired radios. >> ... and made steps in different ranks. >> Wow. In the Armed Forces? >> In the Armed Forces, yeah. >> He stayed there. >> For 40 years? >> Yes. >> For 40 years, yeah. >> Hmm, just like Grandpa [INAUDIBLE]. >> Every 36 years, you get a golden medal. >> Mm. >> Thirty-six years. >> Did he say that he received the Medal of Honor? >> No, that's ... What he's talking about is the medal that you are 36 years in the army. >> Army, 36 years, wow. >> But he stayed longer than that. >> You stayed longer? >> Yeah. >> Wow, so what are you proud about the Dutch in the Korean War? >> Wait a moment. I was in 1998. They came revisit in Korea with my son. >> Mm. >> And he works in Korea with the [INAUDIBLE] ... >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> ... oil platforms, to build oil platforms. >> In Korea? >> In Korea. >> Wow. >> And he brings it to start ... to Africa and all over the world. >> Does he still live in Korea? >> The Koreans platforms. They build in South Korea. >> So he lived in Korea, your son? >> And now he lives here in [INAUDIBLE]. >> Okay. >> But he goes everywhere with the platforms. He brings it back, and then during the start, they test it the [INAUDIBLE]. >> Wow. >> And the platforms bring to the power of the place. >> So you remember serving with many comrades because you were in the army for 40 years, long time. >> Yeah. >> So looking back, Dutch in the Korean War played a very important role, right? >> Yeah, yeah. >> Name couple that you feel are very important for young people to know about Dutch in Korea. >> Oh, yeah. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] Yeah? [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] Yeah? [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> I don't do that, but there are others today do that. They talk in schools, classes, over Korea. >> Mm. >> And now my four [INAUDIBLE] go in ... >> Grandchildren. >> ... go in May to Korea. >> Mm, good. Peacetime ... >> [INAUDIBLE]. Yeah. >> ... to learn ... >> Four. >> ... to learn about the Korean War. >> Going for a week now, Korea. >> Oh, okay. >> It's nice, isn't it? >> Yes. Do you ... Did you go back to Korea? >> No, I not. >> To 1998 ... >> Maybe I go to [INAUDIBLE]. That's far enough. >> You went to Korea with your son ... >> In '98. >> ... in 1998. How about recently? >> No, there were [INAUDIBLE] British over there now. >> Did you go recently? >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] Yeah. >> And what's the last time? In 1998. >> Yeah, yeah. >> I hope you enjoyed it. >> It was very nice ... >> Very nice. >> ... to be there. >> Well, thank you so much for your service. Thank you. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> Yeah. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> Oh.
네덜란드 암스테르담 (4)
>> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> Apikleiner, is his name. Born in ... >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> ... 1932 in Heerenveen, which is in the north. You were 22? [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> Twenty-two, yes, 22 years old. Now, I'm 18 years old in military years. >> You went into the ... >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> ... military service when you were 18 years old. >> Yeah, [FOREIGN LANGUAGE], 21. >> I was 21 when I went to Korea. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> My parents wouldn't allow me to go. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> His parents were very cross with him, and his oldest brother was 27 years old, and he started crying because his younger brother was leaving. >> Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, and that was in September, the Korea [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> We went to Korea in September, and I was there for 1 year. >> Yeah, 1 years, and [FOREIGN LANGUAGE], yeah, [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> He got homesick. He wanted to go back, but he knew he had to continue. >> Regulation that, it was [INAUDIBLE] before the ceasefire. The ceasefire was [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> They were there ... >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> ... before the ceasefire, and they knew it would be coming soon, and a few days more and a few days more. >> Yeah. >> Fourteen days later, it was announced, ceasefire. >> Ceasefire. >> And they were happy. >> Yeah, it happened on [FOREIGN LANGUAGE], all the fighting, fighting, fighting, [FOREIGN LANGUAGE], and it was a ceasefire, and [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> I was walking the patrols ... >> Yeah. >> ... every day, day-in, day-out, and that was very exhausting, and I do not [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> Last year ... >> Last year. >> ... my friend and I went back in May. >> Yeah, [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> It was hardly recognizable at all in Hongseong. When we were there, it was just the bare mountains, and now it's green and beautiful. >> Yeah, [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> We went to the cemetery where all my friends, my comrades were buried, and that was very emotional. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> It was difficult to say, "Good-bye," when we had to fly back. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> I would like to go back there for the rest of my life now. It's so beautiful there. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> His dream is that it's one Korea. >> Yeah. >> Just one Korea. >> And [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> When he was leaving, the local residents there said to him, "What are you going to remember when you go back to Holland?" And he said, "That's also very emotional." >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> Mm-hmm. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> Oh, the parades. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> He was referring to the border with North Korea, that they hold parades and ... >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> ... shows of spirit ... >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] South Korea is defiant for North Korea, but that isn't true. South Korea is defiant for North Korea. North Korea is defiant for South Korea, [FOREIGN LANGUAGE], and South Korea [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] freedom, freedom, freedom, freedom. >> But I want to mention his business out there. >> Did someone say for Ireland? >> I went to the schools, and I spoke to the schoolchildren about this, and they said, "What did you expect to find when you came back?" and he said, "Exactly this." >> Yeah. >> Maybe it's good to tell that this organization, yeah, the old Korean Warriors have adopted a school in Korea. >> Oh. >> This is what he is talking about. >> Yeah. >> So they went to that school, Alice Goldwinn, Samuel? >> Yeah. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> Samuel's school ... >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> And then Dutch school, and every year they're giving money to that school for their development. This is what we ... came through from our lost entities. >> Yeah, but you don't need it anymore because Korea is from a poor, poor country, now a rich country. >> Oh. >> Developed country, so we can only now special scholarship to people what had very good conduct. >> Scholarship? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> To students that have high achievements? >> Yep. >> Hmm, wow, for how long? Since when? >> Oh, oh, many years. >> Many years. >> Actually in the '70s, yep. >> Oh, my god. >> That school was all ... >> Yeah. >> Oh, my god. >> Yeah. >> ... supported by this association. >> So you have many grandchildren? >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> He's not talking about that. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> This is a [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> Yeah, [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> Blue, blue ... >> Blue eyes. >> Yeah. >> Hey, cut it out. >> Yeah. >> No, no. >> One more thing that I think is important that I'd say, the Dutch, because it is the Forgotten War. >> Yeah, yeah. >> It's called the Forgotten War, and the Dutch see everything upside down. They know very little about it, and they think that the South Koreans are the enemy of the North Koreans instead of the other way around. Many Dutch think that because they were not educated. >>[FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> Yes, they've been brainwashed. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] South Korea is also failed, but that isn't true. >> Brainwashed. >> That isn't true. South Korea [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> Yes, the North Koreans have been brainwashed to believe that the South Koreans are their enemy. >> Yeah, and I hope so maybe next years, back to Korea. >> You want to go back next year? >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE], yeah, yeah, [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> His son will go with him. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> You're making a mistake. >> Yeah, [FOREIGN LANGUAGE], but this, [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> Yeah. >> Yeah, I like Korea, yes, oh, yes. >> Well, Korea loves you. >> Yeah, Korea love me? Okay, thank you. >> Thank you. >> Yeah. >> Thank you. >> Okay. >> I'm so grateful. Thank you. Oh.
네덜란드 암스테르담 (5)
>> My name is Phil Altemus Ludovic Highmund. I was born in 1931. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> Born February 18th, 1931. >> Yeah. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> I joined the Limburg Military. >> I then to the war in Korea, and then it got [FOREIGN LANGUAGE], and I was 6 weeks in Korea until the cease-fire came. >> I was only in Korea for 6 weeks when the cease-fire came. >> I have 1 year in Korea with the patrol [FOREIGN LANGUAGE], Lex. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] I can't think of the name. I said, "Okay." >> After the cease-fire, I stayed in Korea for 1 year, and I was on patrol. I had a half-Korean boy who was my helper. I forget his name. It was a Korean name. >> I cannot speak a Korean name. I speak to the boy. I say to you, "Lex." >> I called him Lex, and he accepted that name. >> I have 1 year with Lex in Korea, and it was [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> Lex and I spent 1 year together, but when I had to leave, of course, he stayed there. I also had a little girl in Korea called Long-Kyung. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] no same people can go ... Only the American military, military, military and [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. [ Chatter ] >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. [ Chatter ] >> Lex was my best comrade. I spent a lot of time with just military people, but I really liked the Korean people who lived there, and they were very kind to me. I liked them. They were open and friendly. >> Lex had learned [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. Lex [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] no people, no people. It was [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> He was at the fort post with Lex, and he said, "I can hear people," and Lex said, "That's not people, that's frogs." >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> I left Korea. I went home, and I forgot to ask Lex for his address. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> Now, I think of Lex a lot of the time. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> Next year, I'm going back. >> Maybe you can find him! >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> Yeah, [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> Oh, I had photos but not of Lex. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> I gave those photos, and they're now in the museum. >> Well, you were there for 1 year, right? And you were there after the Armistice. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> Dinner is ready. >> Dinner is announced. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> You were there after the Armistice, after. >> Yeah. >> So before and after, what were some of the major differences? >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> I had changed. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> I was very angry. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] I became very easily angry later. >> At one time, [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> It was difficult to contain it. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> I would relive my problems at night. >> Well, I hope that when you go visit Korea that you can let it go ... >> Yeah, maybe I go to [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> ... and that you can find peace in your heart. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]
네덜란드 암스테르담 (6)
>> My English name is Bill Kramer. I'm born in Amsterdam, 19 December 1934. I joined the Navy when I was 16. After 2 years, then I was 18. I joined a ship for Korea. The Dutch Navy had six ships, always 1 year in Korea. We arrived just after peace fire, so I don't experience the shooting, but we did always patrol, checking for [INAUDIBLE] assistant to aircraft carriers and so on. But we had it a lot better than the ships before. We go regular to Japan to refuel food and R&R for the crew, rest and recreation for the crew. We go [Indistinct] and so we had a wonderful time in Japan, and in Korea, I really was only 9 days. Then I was ashore. We were ashore two times in Pusan and one time in Imjin. Imjin is the harbor of Seoul. Pusan was, during that time, nothing, only some American nationhood a couple concrete buildings but were nothing left. I was last May in Pusan, and I saw a wonderful, big city, and I was in 2008 in Korea. I was not to Pusan but before to the 38th border, and we saw just [INAUDIBLE] back in Korea, and we saw a nice train station that is built for connection from Pusan, Seoul to Paris, yeah. North Koreans don't allow to make railway complete, but impression of Korea is very, very high, and the people is so nice and friendly. I have no words for it, so don't ask me. It's too difficult. I was back in Holland in 1954, and I got an accident in 1957 and a medical discharge in 1960, so that's my story. >> Well, first of all, you must have been very proud when you went to Korea because you were part of Korea becoming what it is today. All right. So thank you very much, and not a lot of people know that the Dutch stayed after the war. People think, "Oh, armistice, and everybody go home," but that's not true. >> No, no, after my ship [INAUDIBLE] another ship that arrives in 1954 until 1955. >> Yes, a lot of people don't know that the countries that participated stayed until 1955. >> But from the Navy, only two men are died, one quartermaster. It's in very heavy storm overboard. He went to save one of the lifeboats, and he was not fastened and get overboard. They never find him, and a radioman in Korea was calling ashore, little, little boat to pick up a Korean officer that was wounded to give him medical help, but the engine of the Dutch boat [INAUDIBLE]. It was English, and it makes the same noise as not Korean fishing boats, so it was foggy, and it starts fire, and the boat had a noise, so it was friendly fire, okay? >> Maybe you can tell about what your experience, the revisit from last year with your ... >> Yeah, yeah, I was ... >> ... last experience with Korea. >> ... Back in 928 last year again, and last year, it was very special because the Korean government are allowed that people who died here in Holland that all Korean veterans that are cremated can go back to Korea and go to Pusan International Cemetery. In Pusan, the cemetery is the only in the whole world what is from the United Nations, and so [INAUDIBLE]. >> [INAUDIBLE] >> Next year [INAUDIBLE]. When we arrive on the air field in [INAUDIBLE] and complete guardian watch [INAUDIBLE]. After that visit, we got a DVD that a whole studio and DVD that pictures only about 700. He was there, and he was there and I. >> When? November? >> No, May. >> May. >> May. >> May. >> [INAUDIBLE]. >> Good weather. >> Good weather, yes. Monday, it was raining, raining, raining, and the director of veterans affairs told us, "Don't worry. At 2 o'clock when you arrive at the cemetery, it is dry." We call it [INAUDIBLE]. Rain, rain, rain. We arrive, ding, dong, 2 o'clock. The rain stops. >> Yeah. >> It was beautiful, yeah. >> It must have been very emotional when you went to the cemetery. >> Yes, and what my buddy told about South Korea and North Korea, we were the last soldiers in Seoul, and [INAUDIBLE] people walk around and a big sign, "What do you think about North and South together?" So we signed it and yeah. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> Yeah, it was beautiful. >> Yeah. >> I am going to visit Korea, Pusan, the United Nations cemetery last after I go everywhere around the world, and I know that there are many Dutch soldiers. >> One hundred twenty-four. >> Are they all there? No. >> Yes. >> Not all in the cemetery in Pusan. >> No. One is in Singapore because he died on his way back to Holland. >> That's [INAUDIBLE]. >> Two men are missing. >> How many are there in Pusan cemetery? >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> All of them went back to Holland. Their families took them back to Holland. I don't know exactly how many. >> The Americans are all back. >> Yes. Americans always bring back. >> Yeah, yeah. >> But I learned that recently, some of the Dutch veterans have requested that they be buried at the United Nations cemetery along with their comrades, so I am looking forward to visiting them and paying tribute. I think it will be very emotional for me. >> I think so too. Yes. You speak Korean? >> I do. >> Oh. >> I will be there in May. >> Because in museum where I was this afternoon, I saw Korean boy that works [INAUDIBLE]. He's working by the Dutch police, and he goes back to Korea 2 years ago. He said it was so difficult because I'm a Korean, but he arrives in Netherlands, been there 6 months, so he don't speak one word Korean. >> But he is Korean. >> He is Korean, so it can be happen. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> My uncle adopted two Korean girls, and they had restaurants [INAUDIBLE] here in Holland, Korean restaurant. >> Really? >> Yeah. Well, they are my nephews. >> Oh. I told you, my uncle. >> I know. >> I told you. >> I know. It's permitted? >> Oh, yes, please. >> Thank you.
네덜란드 암스테르담 (7)
>> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> My name is Feri Titolata. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> I went to Korea in 1953. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> I was injured there in June '53. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> I went back to Korea, and what I now think about the situation is ... >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> Feri was amazed at the six-lane traffic, of course the modern version of what he had seen in 1953. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> There used to be only one bridge. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> And now there are 29 bridges. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> The hills were green. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> It used to be brown and bleak. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> Feri remembers the nicer thing about his period there. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> Seventy years of memories, it's hard to recall everything. >> What do you think is important about your comrades, the Dutch? >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> We made a contribution ... >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> ... for the future, for the present-day. They made then the contribution for now. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> And I hope that everything will continue to go very well for Korea. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> What did you do in the war? >> Oh, fight! >> As a soldier? >> I was wounded. >> Soldier? >> Yes. >> Soldier. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> I would prefer not to talk about that period. >> Okay. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> I came from Indonesia to fulfill my service, and soon after I got here, I was sent to Korea as a volunteer, and this is my uniform. >> How old were you? >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> Twenty-two years. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> Twenty-one! >> Twenty-one. >> Because his mother must sign. He was not 21. >> Oh, so he was underage, and his mother had to sign to go into service. >> And after the war, and stayed in the Army, and he retired in that uniform. >> Oh, wow! Why did you volunteer? >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> You saw adventure. >> But ... >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> But the adventure became part of your life, your career. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> Yeah, [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> Yes, stayed in service. >> Well, thank you for your service. >> You're welcome.
네덜란드 암스테르담 (8)
>> My name is Dick Hermanns. I'm born March 30, 1927, in Amsterdam. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]? >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]? >> I was 23 years old when I go to Korea. I was a volunteer. All the Korean soldiers, Dutch Korean soldiers are volunteers. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]? >> I was in [FOREIGN LANGUAGE], how call you that? >> An assistant, general assistant, you worked. >> What did you do there? What did you do there? >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] fighting. We walked patrol, yeah. >> What do you remember? >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE], we go north and almost we have to go back south because the Chinese are coming. Yeah, I don't know more of this. Every day was the same. I don't know more. >> Do you remember seeing civilians? >> Civilians, the civilian people in Korea? >> Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. >> Yes, we walk on the street. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE], she go and shout that I know. All the village are empty, and the winter, the cold, terrible, 25 degrees below 0 on top of the hill. We used [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. My sleeping bag was from the summer. A winter sleeping bag, I don't have. Cold, no washing, bad food, sheet rashes, you know what it is, sheet rashes? Our teaching was in the south with the Korean soldiers, which it was difficult to talk. She don't speak English. We don't speak the Korean language. We use our hands, and you ask something. What is this in the Korean language? And one Korean soldier told me, my sister, and I had a picture of his sister, and you have to say [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. That is what I know, remember that. The people, the Korean people, their clothes is terrible. War is terrible. When I go to the army again, I'd think it was the same in the navy. We don't know it was the very cold. We know nothing about Korea, but we know. I know now. We arrive in Pusan. We go by train to Daegu, hours, very cold. We make fire in the train because it was too cold. In Daegu, we get a little training of a few days, and the Dutch officers say, "Your shirt out. You have to walk sporting naked in the morning, about 10 degrees below 0," [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] the Dutch soldiers are very, very good, and after the training, we go to [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. I go to a school. All the years, we sponsored two students for to learn at the school, yeah, and we go to the front. Yeah, and then [FOREIGN LANGUAGE], yeah, [FOREIGN LANGUAGE], and the Chinese attack, and we attack, and then we go after a few weeks' rest, yeah, yeah. Your memory, what's left of it, yeah. >> You fought in the Indonesian War before this. >> No, this, in Indonesia, was not a war. It was mere guerrilla, not a frontline in Indonesia. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE], we set up an outpost. >> Hmm. >> From the outpost, we walked every day, not the same soldiers but order. Every day, you had an area, and you have to walk through it. You have to see that the people, oh, soldiers, okay. >> And you were there for 4 years, and ... >> Yeah, 3 1/2. >> Three and a half, and you came back in 1949. >> Yeah, at end of November, December '49. >> But why did you volunteer to go to Korea? >> Yeah, why? To help people there. I go to Indonesia to help them. I join the army after the war, after the Second War, still war between the Japanese. Japanese are still in Indonesia, and in Korea, I don't like the communist. Maybe I think that to help. We were a small unit there, one infantry battalion. It was not much, but, yeah, we did our best. Yeah, that is it. Thank you. Yeah, Indonesia was different, total different. In the city, oh, it was okay, out the city. >> And almost 5,000 Dutch served in Korea, and 124 died. >> Yeah, yeah, it's not much. >> But it's a large percentage. >> Yeah, but this ... >> Yeah, more ... >> And Indonesia, had a main battalion in Indonesia. They had about 60 killed in action for over 3 years fighting. >> Mm-hmm. >> We're fighting. We're fighting not every day. It is slow, small fighting. >> What year did you go to Korea? When did you go to Korea? >> I go to Korea in October 1950. >> That was a very difficult time, one of the most difficult times in the beginning. Right? >> Yeah, I know. >> Right after Inchon landing? >> The Inchon landing with the marines? >> Mm-hmm. >> Yeah. >> You were there from October to when? From October to when? >> Yeah. >> How long were you there? How long were you there? >> My time in Korea? Eleven months. >> Wow. >> Yeah. >> Not 6 months? >> No, no. >> You were there ... >> And the order, the [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] there, but our unit, the first unit, had the most casualties for the Dutch. >> Explain to us about the first unit. I don't know much about the first unit. >> That's because most of them are dead. Now here they are too old. From the 640 men, maybe living, 50? What we know maybe, when she a member of the reunion, a member of the association. The number shrunk. A lot of them are not a member of the association. We don't know if he's still alive or dead. >> When did you join the association? >> When [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]? >> When did you join the association? >> What are you thinking about the ... >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> Oh! >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> When it was first founded. >> When? >> 1970, I don't know sure, about 1975 from the beginning. >> Wow. >> And every year I go to the reunion. >> Mm-hmm. >> This time, it's in Tronchburg. >> Do you think it's important for young people to remember this war? >> I don't know. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> No, do you think it's important? >> It is important, but if she don't care ... It is now each a little bit better. Many years ago, I walk on the street with this, showing people that I do this for my life, yeah? There's no better. There's no better. You walk over the street, no problems. Yeah, that was how we did it. >> And the Dutch, are you proud of Dutch being in the Korean War? >> Yes, yes, I'm very proud, yeah. >> You fought well. >> Yeah, and my daughter's name is Kim because one of the Korean soldiers killed in action, and his name was Kim. I know Kim is a last night. It's not the first name, and [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] Kim, yeah, yeah. >> Because you remember. >> Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, [FOREIGN LANGUAGE], and I want to go for the second time. I meet my wife and done. I'm studying in the Netherlands. >> Have you been back to Korea? >> Yeah, three times. >> Three times? >> Three times, yeah, and I meet a soldier, a civilian and with men in group, three times. >> When was the first time you went back after the war? >> At 676, it's the first group ... >> First group? >> ... was about 18 men in all. >> What did you think? >> Everything, we're going for 5 days and a few days in Japan. Yeah, that was the first time in Seoul. You go to Pusan and the palace and the East Gate, yeah. I have a friend. Yeah, I don't know if he's still alive, of course. His name is Kim Jin-Mook. He lived in Seoul. Yeah. >> When was the last time? >> The last time, in the '80s. I don't know when. >> No, the recent time, recently. >> I don't know. >> No, when did you go to Korea, 2000? You said you went to Korea three times? >> Three times, yeah. >> When was the most recent? >> What is that word, recent? >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> Yeah, [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> Oh, [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> What did you think of new Korea, new Korea or Korea now? >> Oh, it's very, very beautiful, big buildings. The roads are very good. In my time, the roads was terrible. Oh, there was nothing left there, but now, yeah, very, and the people are very ... I was there. There was no one who knew Korean and [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> Curfew? >> Curfew was, yeah. At that time, when I go to Korea, curfew, 12 o'clock, you have to go off the street, we also. >> Mm-hmm. >> The '70s, in the '70s. >> Yeah, yeah. >> Now it's ... >> Not anymore, no, no anymore, no. >> ... It's a free world now, free. >> Free, yeah. >> Yes. >> And when go to the [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] village right down the road, yeah, but there are some picture of me and my wife in clothes of the Korean, a man and a woman. >> Hanbok, hanbok. >> Hanbok? >> Yes. >> Hanbok. >> That's that it's called in Korea, hanbok. >> Oh, yeah. >> Yeah >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> You must be very, very proud. Right? >> Yeah, yeah. >> Mm-hmm. >> I always see my jacket from ... and jacket with the Indian head and the Korean flag. I walk on street. >> Mm-hmm! >> Not on Sunday, Saturday when I use other clothes. In the week, I use military clothes. >> Mm-hmm. >> You see it when you come in? >> Mm-hmm, because you're proud. >> Yeah, yeah. >> Hmm, well, thank you for your service. >> You're welcome. >> Thank you.
네덜란드 암스테르담 (9)
>> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> I'm Pete Fond du Lac, born 21st of March, 1927. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] Which year? >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> Went to Korea in October 1950. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> It was for that, infantry. >> Infantry soldier? >> Yeah. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> How long did you [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> You were there for 1 year, came back in November. >> It was a very difficult winter. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> Yeah, [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> Yes, of course, it was a very difficult time. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> Cold, very, very cold winters. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> Yeah. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> Several of my comrades were killed and my foot froze. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> No. >> Yeah. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> Okay. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> PTSS. >> PTSS. >> Stress Syndrome. >> Stress Syndrome. >> Yeah. >> Hmm. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> Our commander was killed. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> When I came back, I was just a civilian. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> It wasn't difficult. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> Had you not had [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] from the [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]? >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> We were just the front, so I didn't meet any civilians. >> What do you remember about the 2nd Infantry Division, your comrades? >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> I don't remember much about them. >> Well, show us your ... >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> I don't know the translation. >> No, no, no, not American. I said about the Dutch being part of the 2nd Infantry. >> Yes. >> I want him to show ... >> The ... >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] the 2nd Infantry [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> Yeah, show, show. >> Show, show them. >> And you were put together with them? Were you in barracks together? >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] okay. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> The Netherlands unit, we were fighting for the same thing, of course, but we fought separately. >> You volunteered? >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> Yeah. >> Why? >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> I was first in service in Indonesia, and then I came back to Holland, and then I wanted to go to Korea in order to stay in service. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> I had a difficult situation at home in my youth, and when I heard that they were enlisting soldiers for Korea, I thought that would be a good chance ... >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> ... together with Dick Hermanns. >> But it was a brutal war. It was war, and you were young. >> It was [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> Yeah, [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> I was 23, 24. >> Twenty-three years, yeah. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> I never went back there. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> No, I didn't. >> Why? >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> Yeah. He said, "I was never shipped back there. The war was nearly finished anyway, and I experienced enough to want to stay away after that." >> But did you go back to Korea Revisit Program? >> No. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> I didn't want to go. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> I had the chance to go back a couple of times, but I don't feel the need to go and visit the cemetery, and I don't want to go back. >> But today in Korea, Korea is a very successful country. >> Korea [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] ... >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> ... successful land, and that's seen on the television. >> Yeah. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> Dick Hermanns told me so because he's been back. >> Mm-hmm. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> I hope that you are at least proud of your sacrifice. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> Yeah. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> Yes, we're very proud. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> But I don't advertise the fact. Of course, it is [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> Yeah. >> Yeah, it's the forgotten war, and he doesn't talk about it often. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> He has sort of recurring memories which are too emotional for him. >> Nightmares? >> Nightmares? >> Yeah. >> Even now? It's been such a long time ago. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> When Dick Hermanns comes to visit, he's a good friend, and he comes regularly, then they talk about old times, and he has a difficult time later. >> Mm, well, I hope that I could bring you some peace because I don't want you to remember the horrors of war, but I am here to show you that thanks to you, I'm here. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] [ Chatter ] >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> We always get a good reception when we go to the Korean Embassy too, and he understands fully that you are grateful for his services. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> He goes once a year. >> I come here not as just myself but all my family, my friends in America and Koreans all over the world ... >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> Yeah. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> ... but not only Koreans but everybody because you defended Korea and the world from the threat of communism. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> Yeah, I know it. >> So I know maybe it's difficult thinking about it, but I will pray that you find comfort. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> Okay.
노르웨이 오슬로 (1)
>> My name is Adrid Fieren. I am a man of 85 years old. I served in the Korean War with NORMASH in '52, '53. NORMASH was Norwegian contribution among the nations that helped South Korea to defeat the North Korean War from North Koreans. NORMASH is a mobile army surgical hospital. The main purpose for NORMASH is to take care of soldiers directly from the front line, wounded which has to be X-rayed and to be operated by surgeons. NORMASH therefore was placed approximately 10, 12 kilometers from the [INAUDIBLE] front line. We were a part of 8th Army and had, as far as I remember, three divisions to serve soldiers from. Soldiers coming into NORMASH was treated there and had to leave before the 3 days. Then the patients had to [INAUDIBLE] other hospitals. NORMASH was served by, I think, approximately 600 people from Norway. Each continent each period of 6 months, and then 106 persons on each period. I was in the guard, controlling all together with then all the Norwegians, and our duty was to guard camp to serve the borders. What do you call it [INAUDIBLE]? >> Barbed wire. >> Hmm? >> Barbed wire. >> Barbed. >> Wire. >> Wire but [INAUDIBLE] to be in the main gate all 24 hours. Together with [INAUDIBLE] Korean soldiers, a soldier from ROK Army. AMASH, the main thing in AMASH is of course the hospital itself, but it has many service functions around [INAUDIBLE] transport service in the camp, guarding and so on, and we had, I think it was approximately 30, 40 ROK Army Koreans [INAUDIBLE] guarding people. I think there were approximately 15, 20 and [INAUDIBLE] to maintain the camp itself. Then the nights especially in the guard, we were two then, one Korean and one Norwegian. We had difficulties, of course, with language, but we tried to communicate a little. But one thing we learned each other, that was a song. The Korean has a folk song called [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] and the Korean colleague on guard, the Korean learned us [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] and we learned him [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] a Norwegian folk song, and the [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] we learned goes like this. [Lyrics] [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. A little like that, we learned, and perhaps in Korea, an old man of 80, perhaps he's singing [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] maybe. Why did I go to Korea? Well, I was already 20 years old. I had finished first military service in regularly in Norway, and we were all volunteers, and on that time, I nearly didn't know where Korea was, but I had to look up on a map and find the little country called Korea, but it was the adventures, one thing, to travel all around and half around the world. I'd never been in plane before. I'd never slept in a hotel before. It was new adventures waiting, maybe a little to take part in a battle against communism, but I wouldn't say that was the main thing for a young man on that. However, it turned to be a very fine trip. Six months after the War, Korea is one of ... We used to say that no other country in the world is so clever to say, "thank you," [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] as ... You know [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]? Norwegian ... as the Korean. I am so happy that I have been four times back on revisit trips. >> Show us that picture where you went to Korea and that story of the nurse and the patient. >> Yes, that's a good story. You see here we have a book which we, the veterans in Norway, has made possible, and it is also translated to Korean, and here, I can show you one picture. No, it's not here. It's in the magazine from one of the revisit. This was celebrating the 60 years of peace. >> Armistice. >> Huh? >> Armistice. >> Armistice, yes. It's not peace yet. There we had a nurse who served in the very first continent in '51, and she was taking part in that trip and [INAUDIBLE]. You see this? That's a lady. Her name is Gerd Semb. She is now a lady of 95, I think. When we someplace on that trip, I think it was in Uijeongbu, we had a lunch there, and when finished her lunch, going out, there came a man, this man to Gerd and saying, "Ah, I must thank you. I was young man, and I had destroyed my face, and you treated me." After more than 60 years, it seems this happening. That was a very funny and a very good story. >> You're on the cover of the magazine. >> Yeah, this is the magazine for the Norwegian forces. >> With Gerd. >> Yeah [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] is the name of this. >> Who are the other two ... >> Here is also the lady there, yes. >> And who is the other lady? >> And if it is of interest, this is me, and this is the Minister of Defense in Norway at that time. She also followed this trip. >> So what did you think about Korea? >> Now or on that time? At that time, Korea was more or less a ruin. In the place where we were situated, the battles had gone four times through, so it was no houses, no buildings, all destroyed. The people who were there lived in houses built of soil and equipment they held after the battle. Especially fort making ceilings on their houses, they took boxes of beer and open it so it was more like this. If you took the bottom and the top of a box of beer, you will have a flat metal, and many of those was how they built the ceilings, top of the ... >> Roof. >> ... roof, yes. Nowadays, Korea, the first time I visited was in '84, I think. It was a new modern country. It was unbelievable for me to come back and see this wonder, and the Korean people, I love them. I really love them. >> Number one. >> Number one, they are number one. >> That's number one. >> And we have been so happy. We have this veteran association to have a very, very good connection with the Korean ambassador. He is number one. So I think me and all the other Korean veterans also are very fond of the Korean people. >> Well, we thank you. >> Thank you. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> Enough.
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>> My name is Fillmore Kent, and I am 85 years old, and I served in Korea from November '53 until November '54. That was the last two continents in NORMASH history. I volunteered, as everybody who served in Korea. The reason why the Norwegian, Trygve Lie, was the first general secretary of UN starting in 1946, and it was very much publicity around the Korean War in Norway at that time. So, of course, I wanted to help. Also, it was an exciting because you cannot imagine today how far away Korea and Norway was. The second reason, or the third reason, was that I needed money to start my study in Germany, and the salary was partly paid in Korea and partly in Norway so you can save. We all had 6-month contract. I renewed my contract after 6 months, and that's the reason why I spent 1 year in Korea. The reason why I was picked out was that I had some first aid courses in Red Cross, and I was already a laboratory man, so I first picked out to serve at the hospital laboratory. When I came down, the position was occupied, so they put me as assistant to the operation tent. It was quite a new experience for me, but I learned rather quickly, and you get used to it. It was after the armistice, but we still had very many military patients but gradually fewer army people and more Korean civilians. After the 6 months, we had the opportunity to travel down to the hospital in Busan, the Swedish hospital, permanent hospital, so we get to know very much some Swedes. We had also very good relations with the Koreans in the camp. We were close friends. I have a theory in that aspect, Korea is a rather small country dominated by China and Japan. Norway is also a small country, dominated for centuries by the Danes. Norway was just a farmer's country with no education. If you wanted to have education, you had to go to Copenhagen. Later, we were under the strong influence by the Swedes, so my theory is that Korea and Norway have more or less the same history, even though they are opposites of the world. In April '54, NORMASH also engaged six Korean nurses already educated to help out because of the many Korean civilians, and I got to know one of them, and she came to Norway in '57 for further education and to meet me. We married in '61. We are still married. We have three children and eight grandchildren. So for me, the Korean event influenced my whole life afterwards. My wife is really happy because it's very important for Koreans to have a family and some success, so she's quite satisfied in her life also. >> I would love to see her picture. I would love to see her picture. >> I not here. >> Oh, wow. Fascinating. You went back to Korea, you said, for a visit, right? >> Yes. >> How many times? >> Yes. I think after ... These are the 30 years after the armistice. Koreans started the revisit tours, and I have been in Korea twice, in '83, so after 30 years, and in 2010. It was very surprising to get to come there and see that the fort is still ready to shoot after 30 years of armistice. >> Even now? >> Even now. But I mentioned the Busan hospital Swedes. As I told you, we got along, Swedes, very good, and they were both countries who had commission in Tongduchon to secure the armistice, and they still are there, I suppose, so we could visit them very early in 1954. I'm also a board member of the Korean War Veterans Association in Norway, and we have two events yearly here at the memorial statue. In June, the military attache located in Stockholm comes to pay tribute to our dead, and in the second Friday of November, we have our annual meeting. >> Don't touch that. With your hands, don't ... >> Oh. Oh. Okay. Sorry. >> Okay. Say that again about your Association reunions. >> Huh? >> About your reunions. Say it again. You have two ... >> Yeah. Okay. I'll start from the ... Yeah. Okay. Mm-hmm. >> [INAUDIBLE] >> Now, the Korean Veterans Association have two occasions to remember the dead ones here at Akershus Castle. The first one is in June. The military attache for Sweden and Norway located in Stockholm, he comes to pay tribute. And also the second Friday in November, we have our annual meeting where we also have a ceremony at the statue, and our president [INAUDIBLE], he is a former officer in the king's guard, and he takes care of the ceremony with flags, with armed guards and military band. So it's a rather great experience for us. >> Do a lot of people come? >> Yes, because in our association, we also have members who served at the Scandinavian hospital in Seoul, which was created in '56 or something, so they who served there also are members of our association. >> Do Korean Norwegians come, too? >> Yes, of course, the embassy and the embassy staff and some Koreans, too. >> How about young people? >> Not so many young people, but my experience is that young people in Korea, they know very much about the Korean War. >> More than other countries. >> Yeah. >> Well, what do you think, because the Korean War is called, "The Forgotten War"? The Korean War, they say, is "The Forgotten War." >> Mm-hmm. Not for me. >> Hm. You're right. So I'm hoping to preserve this history for young people, younger generations. I'm very glad that Julie is here because she is young Norwegian, and I want more young Norwegians to be proud of your service. >> I can also mention that from 2010, Korea also invited grandchildren of veterans. So in the first tour, we had 12 participants from Norway [INAUDIBLE] from Norway, and they had 1 week in Seoul and Busan and 1 week marching along the line, so it was a really good experience for them. >> Did your grandchildren go? >> Yes. I had one grandchildren. Actually, I had two grandchildren now, and when I revisited Korea in 2010, I brought also another grandchildren with me, and [INAUDIBLE] grandchildren and also Lucy [INAUDIBLE] on Saturday if she had the grandchildren. >> What did they think? >> They were very happy, and of course, it was a great experience for the grandchildren, too. >> I'm sure they were very proud of you. I think so, right? Because they see Korea now, right? What do you think of Korea now? >> Now, as I already said, the frontline passed four times through Seoul, so it was nothing left when we arrived, so it's amazing how the Koreans can manage. They are very clever and very grateful, work very hard. >> Yeah. We do work hard, and we're very grateful people. >> Yeah. >> We are very, very thankful. >> Yeah. Mm-hmm. >> We don't forget. >> No, and of course, if you look to North Korea, you understand why you are grateful. >> Yes. I say that I am very, very fortunate and blessed that I was not born in North Korea, you know? >> Yeah. >> So I hope that, you know, you went, and you defended South Korea's freedom, right? I hope that the war will end soon and Korea would finally have peace and reunification so that North Koreans can also enjoy freedom. Do you think that's possible? >> Doesn't look that way. And, of course, Germany was divided in the same way, and it ended, but you can still see a difference between West Germany and East Germany, even in Berlin. So it's not easy to combine West Germany and East Germany, still some problems, and I suppose in Korea, it must be even more problems. But of course, I will wish you good luck. >> Yeah. I hope so, too. Anything you would like to say to maybe young people all around the world about war, peace, about your experience in Korea? >> No. I don't think so. >> No? Well, thank you so much for your time. >> Okay. Okay.
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>> You have from there, the German, Norwegian soldiers in Germany after war. >> Okay. >> And we have those from Sweden, if you see, to Sweden, the Korean, Norwegian Korean there in the middle. >> Okay. >> [INAUDIBLE]. >> Do you read Korean? >> Yes. >> Yes. >> NORMASH, 1951 to 1954, wow, 623 Norwegian ... More than 90 patients. >> Ninety thousand, 90,000. >> Ninety thousand, I mean, 90,000. Were any Norwegian servicemen or women killed? >> Three of them. >> Not in battle, not in battle. >> Three? >> But not in battle but in service. >> Accidents. >> Accidents? >> Yeah. >> What kind of accidents? >> Driving accidents. >> Driving ... >> In Korea? >> Yeah, yeah, during the service, yeah. >> Oh, no. >> And the third one is a Norwegian sailor. >> Sailor, yes. >> Because when the Korean War started, a lot of Norwegian ships were in the area, so they worked with evacuation of civilians from the war zone and also the transportation of heavy military material from the fan to Korea and back to Japan for repair also. >> So ... >> But it's not so well-known. >> I only thought ... >> We have written about it in our book. >> I only thought doctors and nurses went from Norway. >> Oh, no, personnel too. To run a MASH, you need more than doctors. >> One hundred persons in total. >> One hundred and six. >> Sixty of them working in the hospital. >> Each continent, 106 persons. >> And the very necessary addition ... >> Cooks, cooks, guards. >> Drivers. >> Drivers. >> Technical personnel. >> Technical and camp workers. >> But ... >> And in addition, 60 Korean too. >> Yes. >> Really? So ... >> About 25 Korean guards? >> Yeah, approximately. >> Approximately. >> And four were working in the camp. >> And civilians too. >> So 100 medical personnel? >> Yeah, yeah, and the MASH consists of 100 persons, Norwegian persons. >> And 523 other servicemen from Norway because there were 623 total. >> Yes, in total. >> No. >> All Norwegian were volunteers. >> Each continent ... >> Yeah, continent, yeah. >> ... for 1/2 a year, and we had six continents. >> Seven, seven. >> Seven at all, and they changed every 6 months, and each continent had 106 persons, personnel, and of those, approximately 40 medicals. >> No, 60 medicals. >> So many? >> Yeah [INAUDIBLE]. >> [INAUDIBLE]. >> It doesn't matter, doesn't matter. >> And of course, the medicals, the hospital is the main thing of a MASH, of course. MASH stands for Mobile Army Surgical Hospital, MASH. >> There's a very famous TV series in America. >> We have seen that. >> Comics. >> What do you think of that? >> The scenery is very natural. I don't know where it's taken, but it looks like Korean scenery. >> Yeah. >> And the tents and everything is very, very close to ... >> Real? >> ... real, yeah. >> And you see here, NOR, that stands for Norway, MASH. >> And if you behaved well, you could have a new contract for 6 months. I behaved very well, so I stayed for 1 year. >> One year, but why ... >> He didn't behave so well, and so he stayed for another 6 months. >> You all volunteered. >> Yes, we all were. >> Everybody was volunteer. >> Wasn't it difficult? Why did you want to stay longer? Wasn't it difficult? >> To stay longer? No, no, I had service after the war or armistice. >> Approximately 100 stayed more than ... >> Yeah. >> ... 1 year. >> Yeah. >> Six months, 1 year at all. It was a good pay, you see, after Norwegian conditions, and so it was ... >> To be honest, I had three reasons for going to Korea. First of all, Norwegian Trygve Lie was the first general secretary of United Nations. He was well-known internationally because Norway had a foreign administration in London during the war, and so it was very much first about Korea and the Korean War. Of course, I wanted to help. Secondly, it was very exciting, so exotic. >> Yeah. >> You cannot imagine today how far it was from Norway to Korea and how different the societies were, so it was excitement, and thirdly, I needed money for my study, and we were not so very good paid, but most of the money was in Norway. >> Yeah, yeah, yes. >> And we had a small salary. >> Scrips. >> Yeah, scrips. >> Money valued only during war, Korea. >> Yeah, and the scrips started all in first World War, I read once. >> Yeah, special money. >> Yeah.