>> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> My name is Ibrahim Gulek. >> Ibrahim Gulek [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> I went to South Korea in [INAUDIBLE]. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> It took us 23 days to go to Korea with ship. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> First when we went, we were the [INAUDIBLE]. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> When we first landed in Pusan port, we were exhausted for the long trip, and they let us rest for 2 days. Then we had to go to the war zone right after with a train. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> We were going with a train, but the railroads were a little broken, and that caused the ride to be really slow because we couldn't go fast because of the railroads. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> And when he first saw the Korean kids, he was surprised because they didn't have any clothes during the winter, and he thought the kids were able to withstand the cold because that was the first time they saw kids wearing basically nothing in this cold weather. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> There was food, Turkish bread and meat in the middle. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> He would basically give the food, and they would all try to take the food, basically, and they would take the food from someone else's mouth. That was how the situation was. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> And when they saw this, they didn't think about their own deaths at all. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> When we first reached the war zone, we had to dig our own cover ourselves. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> All our hands were all destroyed and bruised because of digging a lot. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> We were walking around underground. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> And the gun was 7.5 kilograms that we were carrying everywhere with us. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> I could not shoot anywhere. It was a long-range rifle, and I had seven targets that I had to hit. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> And his lieutenant told him to shoot a specific target, but he had 200 bullets in his gun, in his rifle, and he would keep shooting at the area, but he could not see anything because of the dark. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> And when he shoots a lot of bullets, the rifle gets really hot, and he has to change rifle as well. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> And he constantly changed those rifles and put one of them underground in order to cool down. Then every night, he would spend around 1,500 bullets shooting at those targets. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> And he went [INAUDIBLE] basically, and he would shoot at those areas, but he told his lieutenant that he could not see anything. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> And the lieutenant told him that tomorrow morning, you'll see what you were shooting at. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> And it's nighttime, and he went to the lieutenant, and he was sleeping in his bed. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> The lieutenant in the night, he went to his lieutenant, and ... >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> ... he took the binoculars. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> He looked through the binoculars to see what he was shooting at. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> And when he looked through the binoculars, he saw a huge hill, but when he looked closely, he realized that it was all corpses, actually, human bodies that were put together up there. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> Every district or area unit had one phone [INAUDIBLE]. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> It was for them shooting the crossfire so that the enemy could not dodge or go towards one area. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> And also, they would shoot in a crossfire [INAUDIBLE] bombed area, and he would see the trees that were full of holes, basically. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> And the [INAUDIBLE] were actually good in every way. He's seen that. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> And in the medallion ceremony where they had their pulling rope game, he was part of that as well against the US military. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> Basically, it was 10 US soldiers and 10 Turkish veterans, and there was water in the middle, and they were playing who would pull the other side to the water. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> So the Turkish soldiers dug in the ground with ... >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> So their tactic was, they know that US soldiers were bigger and larger and stronger than them, so they basically at least threw up a little bit, and once they were losing their balance, they would pull in that time, and they won the pulling game with that tactic. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> In the war ... >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> [INAUDIBLE] basically they were English soldiers a lot, but they were hiding in the bushes to try to pull it back, but the Turkish soldiers would just charge in even though they did not fear anything, and he forced himself to go straight in the line and under pushes that that's why the Turkish soldiers won that small battle in the area. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> And in the medal ... >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> ... for every Turkish soldier, a US soldier would accommodate that person and buy food and take him around, and a high-ranking officer was chosen for him. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> [INAUDIBLE] after I went back to ... >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> Back in those days ... >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> ... they would exchange mail. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> Ask him about Korea. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> And he's talking about the time when they were in the forest, and there were a lot of Korean citizens as well because they could not live in those houses because of the bombing and attack, and a lot of Turkish soldiers would take their food and everything and give it to the Korean citizens who were living in those forests with them. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> But the US soldiers thought that we were selling the food to the Korean citizens ... >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> ... and asked whether we had money or not from all the food that we gave. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> The soldiers thought that the Turkish soldiers were selling because they did not think that they would give their own everything to the Korean citizens, and that's why US citizens were suspicious of Turkish soldiers, but once they realized and asked the Korean citizens that they had no money or anything, they just gave the food for free to the Korean citizens, they thought that the Turkish soldiers were kind of stupid because they were going to be weaker, and they left without finding anything. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> The Koreans loved us a lot, and it feels like we're blood brothers, basically. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> They went back to Korea in 1999. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> And when they landed, they were going to go see the places they fought at. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> And they turned those houses into museums, and he was going towards those area with other veterans as well. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> And the graveyards. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> And there were 165 ... >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> [INAUDIBLE]. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> And he's talking about ... >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> ... when he was in a tank in the war. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> He's talking about when he went back to the graveyards of the other people who died. He saw one of his friends who died in a tent when they were together, and there was a bullet shrapnel that fell from the top, and one went towards his friend, so his friend died, and he saw his grave when he went back, and he cried when he saw that. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> He was a really good person that passed away, his friend. >> Is he buried in the United Nations Pusan Cemetery? >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> Tell him, "What is his name?" >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> Sebatin. >> Sebatin. >> Sebatin. His last name? >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> Tell him, when I go to the United Nations Pusan Cemetery, I'll visit him too. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> He is actually not in the [INAUDIBLE]. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> He prayed to Allah in that graveyard. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> People were wondering why would he do it, but he said, "I don't care. I want to pray." >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> And he sees himself online where he's praying in the graveyard for the ... >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> Basically, he's seen on the Internet that he went back after 60 years and saw his friends, and he prayed for God.

>> Hi, everybody, from Paramaribo, Suriname. This is the Surinamese River, and I am going to take you to the Korean War memorial at this Independence Square. So it's very fitting today. I'm going to have to be careful because I don't want to fall into water, but today is Independence Day in Suriname, and that's why there's a lot of activities going on in the background. Suriname gained independence in 1975 on November 25th, and obviously today is November 25th, and they gained independence from the Netherlands. So the reason why I'm here in Suriname is because they were a former Dutch colony, and during the Korean War in 1950, the Surinamese, 115 of them ... Whoa! >> Watch out. >> Went to Korea, and two were killed. So you'll see over there, there is a memorial with three statues. Again, this is the Independence Square. And I was so happy because it seemed like obviously there's so many people here. It seems like a lot of people knew about this memorial. It was 2008 when the Korean government dedicated, donated money so that they could dedicate this memorial [INAUDIBLE]. This rain has [INAUDIBLE] a couple times throughout the day like a storm, so it's a little bit wet. So a Korean soldier, and this was erected [INAUDIBLE] monument in memory of Surinamese [INAUDIBLE] in 2008, June 25th. As you guys know, June 25th is the day that the Korean War started, 1950. So there's the beautiful Korean soldiers. If you look at them, they look a lot like the American soldier. If I'm correct, and I'll have to find out more, but the Dutch soldiers were attached to the 2nd Infantry of the U.S. Army, the Indianheads. That's probably why they're wearing, like, American uniforms. So I'll show you the [INAUDIBLE]. This side, so it basically says that it was dedicated to 102 Surinamese veterans, and like I said, two passed away. And on the other side ... Look, the [INAUDIBLE]. There are the names of everyone, and I am extremely excited because there are currently ... Among these, there are only three living, and so tomorrow I'll be meeting Mr. Gom and two more others, and we will be here in the morning to lay a wreath, so I am extremely grateful, and thanks to [INAUDIBLE] for filming and taking me around today ... >> You're welcome. >> ... and showing me this ... >> You're welcome. >> ... beautiful, beautiful country. I have learned so much from you, thank you, about the groups here, and I just wanted to quickly point out that the Surinamese are extremely diverse here, and I'll explain why a little later, but the flag has a star in the middle, and that star symbolizes the unity of all ethnic races, so ta-da. I'm wearing yellow to symbolize unity because I, wherever I go, pray for unity among just all of us, but at the same time, I keep praying for unity and peace between North and South Korea so that they become one Korea. So thank you, everybody. I will see you tomorrow. Bye.

>> Hi, everybody. I am here at the Veterans Affairs Department with, ta-da, my American-Samoan and Korean-War grandpas and their families, so I’m going to introduce you to them. So you met yesterday the Veterans VFW state commander, Inafo Maria.

>> Hello.

>> Aloha, right? And then the post commander, Mr. Apu.

>> Hi.

>> Okay. So here is my veteran grandpa. You can come a little closer. Your name is …

>> Suaka Shushba.

>> Yes. Grandpa Sua was in the Air Force, which is very rare, in 1950 …

>> Two.

>> 1952, so he flew to Korea carrying a …

>> Atomic bomb.

>> He carried an atomic bomb, but thank God, yeah, thank God he didn’t have to drop it, right? Yeah. If I remember correctly, General MacArthur kind of wanted to drop it, huh?

>> Wanted to drop it.

>> Yeah, but thank God that didn’t happen because Korea then would not exist today, maybe. Yes, and maybe I wouldn’t exist, so thank you for not dropping it.

>> [INAUDIBLE] protect Korea.

>> Yes. Thank you. Thank you. Look how young he looks. How old are you, Grandpa?

>> I’m 87 years old.

>> Eighty-seven, he’s looking young though.

>> He’s too young.

>> Yes. Now this is my second Korean-War-veteran grandpa with his lovely girlfriend and son, handsome son, right? Grandpa, your full name?

>> [INAUDIBLE].

>> Yes. It’s a little bit long, but for short, I will call you my Grandpa … first name …

>> Beneva.

>> Beneva, Grandpa Beneva. He has an impeccable memory, and he was a combat veteran, right?

>> Yeah.

>> He served in some of the major battles of …

>> Outpost Harry.

>> Outpost Harry with the Greeks.

>> Pork Chop Hill.

>> Pork Chop Hill. Oh, by the way, everybody, do you have the … Well, he doesn’t have it, but he’s part of the Indianhead, the second ID. There’s a lot of Indianhead people watching this. So, “second to none,” right?

>> Second to none.

>> Second to none. Yes, yes. That’s it, so thank you, and what’s your name?

>> Gilbert Fiere.

>> Okay. What does it mean for you to have a father who served in the Korean War?

>> I’m very proud of my dad. He inspired me to join the service as well, and so I’m very proud of him.

>> Where did you serve?

>> First Persian Gulf War.

>> Oh, thank you for your service too. Thank you. Okay. Well, he’s not a Koren War veteran.

>> Nope.

>> As you can see, he’s not that old, but his father …

>> Yes.

>> His father was a Korean War veteran, and your father’s name is …

>> Edwin Robert Hollister.

>> Yes. Mr. Grandpa Edwin, he too also served in Desert Storm, so we have many families. Many of the members of the family served in the military and American Samoa. Per capita, right, number one, per capita, number one, and they have the spirit of serving the country, duty freedom, right, family, protecting family.

>> Yes.

>> And so your father served what year, you said?

>> 1950 …

>> 19 …

>> … until 1953, somewhere that time.

>> Yeah, yes, and he served in the Army.

>> Army, yes.

>> Yes. Do you know what division or what …

>> No. I don’t know.

>> Yes. He doesn’t know, but he did say that his father was very proud, right?

>> Yes.

>> He died 7 years ago?

>> No, back in …

>> Oh, it was ’75, 1975.

>> ’76. He passed away in 1976.

>> Oh, 1976, but he was born in 1925.

>> Yes.

>> Oh, and he was a medic. Now it’s coming back to me.

>> He was a medic, yes.

>> Yes, he was a medic. He was a medic, so we have airmen. We have a combat veteran, and we have a medic in American Samoa in the Korean War. And this is a very special story, so I’m going to save you last.

>> Mm-hmm.

>> Ladies, best for last, but his father …

>> Uncle.

>> Uncle, I’m sorry. His uncle also served in the Korean War, and so did he, right?

>> Yes.

>> And your uncle inspired you to be tough, right? You said so.

>> Yes.

>> Yeah. Everybody was scared of his uncle and his family, he said, right?

>> Yes.

>> And what is your uncle’s name?

>> Name is Titae Fieme.

>> Yes, and we honor him and his memory. Now her uncle and her brave uncle also fought. So they’re all family here. Let’s show … What’s your name? What’s your name? She’s shy, but she’s very cute and pretty. Okay, so your uncle’s name is …

>> Masanisa Soripo Fanlan.

>> Yes, and her uncle, however, passed away, died, was killed in the Korean War.

>> Action.

>> Killed in action in August …

>> August 12th, 1950.

>> Yes, so as you remember, that was less than 2 months after the Korean War broke, and this was before the [INAUDIBLE] of MacArthur, so when your uncle fought was when the North Korean army, after invading the 38th Parallel, kept pushing down and down and down and down. So your uncle was part of the first major casualties that were suffered, and it was so touching because her family still remembers her uncle’s memory, but she never saw his picture. They don’t have a picture of their uncle, so they don’t know how he looks like, so they only remember him through the heart, and so I’m really hoping that I can find them …

>> A picture.

>> Yeah, get a picture so that they can see how handsome their uncle was, and I know your other sister is not here, but there was a song about his uncle. Can you sing that a little bit one more time?

>> I don’t know. I forgot the words.

>> Yes.

>> My sister remembers.

>> Just a little bit.

>> The word of the song, it was done by my grandmother, his mom, and the word of the song goes like this in English: “Masani, where are you? Are you sleeping, or are you awake? Please come home.” That’s it.

>> And his mom was always waiting for him to come.

>> I think because he left when he was a young man, not an old man.

>> I call her my auntie, and I’m so, so honored you’re here, and I’m here to say thank you to your family and that your uncle’s service and sacrifice is not forgotten, okay?

>> Amen.

>> Forever, and there are so many people out there who are grateful to you. I represent them. I’m here to represent everybody who’s grateful, not just by myself, okay?

>> All right. Thank you very much.

>> So thank you, everybody, and I’m just so happy to be here on this beautiful island. We still have [INAUDIBLE] to do and cemeteries to visit. We’re going to go visit her uncle’s grave later. So remember727.org. Thank you. Bye.

>> Hello, everybody. I am here. I’m so excited. I’m honored to be here with my American-Samoan-Korean-War veteran grandpa. His name is …

>> Yaputo.

>> … Yaputo …

>> Avengario.

>> … Avengario. I’m also here with the Veterans of Foreign War commander, state commander, Inapo Maria. Aw, oh. I just told him that I’m very grateful to be here, and I gave him this pin, and I paid my utmost respect with a Korean bow, and he said, “I was just doing his” … He was just doing his job, but as you can see, he has so … He has a Purple Heart.

>> I think I have two Purple Hearts.

>> Two Purple Hearts …

>> And a Bronze Star.

>> … and a Bronze Star.

>> I’ve got three Bronze Stars with valor.

>> Three Bronze Stars with valor.

>> With valor.

>> How do you have three Bronze Stars?

>> They need to …

>> I got a combat patch.

>> … recognize his service, especially on, what you think, on Veteran’s Day …

>> Oh, my goodness.

>> … because I never knew he has this.

>> Wow.

>> I’m glad that you came.

>> Aw.

>> And I’m glad. My heart, I’m glad that you came because I’m so proud for his service.

>> I’m so thankful. Can you tell us about your war experience?

>> The only really [INAUDIBLE]. When we do our job and all good ones, I am still living and really fortunate [INAUDIBLE].

>> Well, you did your job very, very, very well because you defended the freedom for not only Korea but for this world really because the Korean War helped end Communism, but you should be very proud because not a lot of people know about American Samoa and American Samoans, and so the Korean War, people forget, but people don’t know American Samoa. So you almost died, and that’s why you have a Purple Heart, two Purple Hearts and three Bronze Medals. You must have seen many people die too. I hope that you remember the war but not only of pain but also of goodness. What year did you go to Korea?

>> ’52.

>> 1952? For how long?

>> [INAUDIBLE] and when I returned back after about June ’54, we finished off [INAUDIBLE].

>> So you were there from 1952 to ’54?

>> Yeah. I started on [INAUDIBLE].

>> Hmm.

>> [INAUDIBLE]

>> Oh.

>> It’s for us to remember.

>> Oh, thank you.

>> I’ll give that to him.

>> Okay. Thank you. She’s giving this to me, and she’s giving one for you, but I don’t feel like I deserve this.

>> What?

>> This medal.

>> No, no, yes, you do. No, you do. That’s my commander’s pin.

>> Okay. Thank you.

>> And you more than deserve it. You came all the way down here to say thank you to Korean veterans. Nobody can do it. Nobody do it from other … other country, but I know it’s precious to him, and he feels great that people like you that remember their service during the … This is my commander’s pin for you too, Papa.

[ Chatter ]

>> My big Papa. You’re my big Papa.

>> So no matter at least I know where he lives, so we can pay tax. Okay?

>> So do you remember … What do you remember about Korea?

>> I was in Korea … [INAUDIBLE] really, it was too cold. I went in the wintertime. Oh, boy, I don’t know which one I was scared to: the war or the cold.

>> Or the cold.

[ Chatter ]

>> Or the island.

>> Yeah, you stay over here. It’s warm.

>> Oh, it was cold.

>> Oh.

>> Now when I returned, I was wanted back in [INAUDIBLE] to get some [INAUDIBLE], and they gave me the two choice to go to finish up my time in Vietnam. One is to work [INAUDIBLE], they said, “You can go to Korea, or you can go back to Vietnam.” I was thinking about how cold, so I ran a call to a job in Vietnam [INAUDIBLE] about living over there [INAUDIBLE].

>> Hmm.

>> When I told him I’m involved back in Vietnam.

>> Yes, you served in Korea and Vietnam.

>> Yeah.

>> A lot of them, they served Korea and then Vietnam because they’re kind of back to back.

>> But so you received both Purple Hearts in Korea or Vietnam?

>> Vietnam.

>> Both in Vietnam?

>> Yeah, and [INAUDIBLE].

>> Oh, all three Bronze Stars in Vietnam?

>> Yeah.

>> Not in Korea?

>> Korea, I could [INAUDIBLE].

>> Oh.

[ Chatter ]

>> Combat.

>> Combat.

>> That’s one for the … That’s for the star.

>> Do you think your experience in the war and Korea helped you become more brave in Vietnam because you knew more about war?

>> I think right now it’s equipment. They get all brand-new ones that really … That was a big change. Now everything is [INAUDIBLE]

>> Mm. What division did you belong to in the Korean War?

>> I was in Third Division, Seventh Regiment, First Battalion.

>> Okay, Seventh …

>> Seventh Regiment.

>> … Regiment.

>> Third …

>> Third …

>> Third …

>> Third division.

>> Yes.

>> Okay.

>> Seventh Regiment and …

>> Third Division, Seventh Regiment.

>> Yes.

>> … and First Battalion.

>> First Battalion, okay.

>> Third Division.

>> Yes.

>> Seventh Regiment and First Battalion.

>> Yes.

>> Division, regiment then battalion.

>> Yes.

>> And what company?

>> Oh, yeah.

>> I was in the First Battalion and Company D.

>> D Company, Delta Company.

>> Did you experience any discrimination?

>> I experienced …

>> Discrimination.

>> Oh, there was some struggle because the part of the Third Division, the other regiment comes from Puerto Rico.

>> Oh.

>> So …

>> Puerto Rican, Hispanic.

>> Puerto Rican.

>> No one understands each other.

>> Oh.

>> And they think that’s the reason why they started changing [INAUDIBLE]. The regiment on Puerto Rico, it’s changing around.

>> Oh, okay.

>> Same thing over in [INAUDIBLE].

>> That’s good to know.

>> Yeah [INAUDIBLE].

>> Are we going on 20?

>> Mm-hmm. Thank you so much for meeting me. I’m so happy. I’m so happy. When you look at this heart, don’t forget me, okay?

>> Yeah.

>> Okay?

>> Yeah, I know.

>> I know.

>> I know because I don’t know how many people are alive and [INAUDIBLE] I hope they have somebody because all the people I went to Korea, I never [INAUDIBLE].

>> Oh.

You know a guy named Malleva, Maneva Pioli?

>> [INAUDIBLE]

>> No, no, but were you serving in Korea with him? He’s here. He arrived. We’re going to interview him.

>> Yes.

>> And so we thought that you’d make it to the center so you can see if you’re going to meet some of your …

>> Is that Malleva de Chun?

>> Malleva, no, no, not Union Malleva. Union Malleva is here too. He’s alive.

>> Yeah.

>> But Diauli Maneva .

>> Oh, no, I don’t know him.

>> Papa, how old are you?

>> Huh?

>> How old are you?

>> Eighty-eight.

>> Eighty-eight, so you went to Korea when you were 20, huh? No, 22, 1952, you were 22. Okay. Well, so this is my Papa, big Papa and American-Samoan Papa, and I’m just so happy to be here. It took a long time for me to be here, to get here. It was very difficult, but it’s so worth it, seeing your tears. It was worth all of my tears to get here, so, everyone, look. Can you stand up? Look. Look at this. Okay? Look at this. We’re going to …

>> Is that you and your wife over there?

>> Yes.

>> Get the photo of the … Oh …

[ Chatter ]

>> Yeah that’s [INAUDIBLE].

>> Yes, and I want to show he served in the Vietnam. He’s a warrior citizen, and his Purple Heart, Bronze Star, look at all his medals, not that I’m saying a veteran is one who has more medals, his life is any more precious. I’m not saying that. However, he went above and beyond to really serve the country, and the thing is, he never forgot. He never forgot.

>> I still get a Korean [INAUDIBLE]. That one right in the middle in the third row.

>> Oh, this one?

>> Way down, way down.

>> Way down.

>> Right there.

>> Yes, yes, yes.

>> That’s a unit citation, your unit citation.

>> Yes, so look at this. So I just want everybody to know that the veterans never forget their service, yes. Look at this. I want … Can you show this one here down here? I think he was in the Second Infantry. This is an Indianhead. Were you in the Second Division too?

>> Yeah, my son was stationed.

>> Okay.

>> He gave me that poster when he …

>> Oh, okay, so your second … So your son was in the Second Infantry Division in Korea.

>> Yeah, [INAUDIBLE].

>> Oh, wow, yes, so his son is also a Korean defense veteran, so he’s an Indianhead. So is my boss and many people out there, so again, I just thank you, Grandpa Pito, for receiving me today and everyone. I’m going to now meet other veterans at the Veterans Center, and we’re going to have a ceremony.

>> You’ve got time.

>> I’m just so happy to be here, so thank you, yes.

[ Chatter ]

>> Thank you. Bye.

>> Well, my name is Kevin Collin Joseph Berriman, commonly known as Col. I joined the Army on the 25th of October 1951, on my 17th birthday, as the Korea War was waging at that time. However, as I was underaged, at 17, you weren’t allowed to go into active service until you were 19. So therefore, the first 2 years of my Army life was spent waiting to go to Korea, in fact. I finally made it just after the Armistice when I went back for a second tour on the line. When we arrived, we did not have to put up with the shelling and the major fighting patrol activity, however, when I arrived my immediate thought was the sympathy for the people, and most of the populous was in starvation at that time. It was a terrible time for the South Korean people. When we arrived, there was still activity up on the DMZ. We established the demarcation zone, and our main activity at the time was patrolling inside the zone, which was allowed in those days. We patrolled one side, and the Chinese, who were still there, patrolled the other side, and we used to to wave to each other occasionally in the center. There was still activity with North Korea crossing the border on several occasions. Of course, we had to keep the whole area fortified, and I served there for approximately 12 months in that activity. There were several clashes on the border at that time, and I was injured during one of them where we had to chase some suspects. We chased them into a mine field. Well, we didn’t ever find out who they … I’ll have to stop. Anyway, we never got to catch the four that we were chasing. We saw them, nearly caught them, but they went into a mine field, and we stopped the chase, but sadly saw them … Well, we couldn’t interview them because there was nothing left of them to interview after that. During the chase, I sadly fell down a ravine, and I didn’t know it at the time, but I’d fractured my spine, and really I was out of action for some weeks after that. I spent time in hospital, and then came back to Korea for a short time where we engaged in more patrol activities, especially along the DMZ. Then my time was up in Korea, and I was hospitalized again, but over in Japan while I was in hospital, I was approached by the public relations officer. They wanted somebody to look after the office in Japan for a while, and they recruited me as a junior noncommissioned officer in the public relations office, where we were engaged in photography of Operation Glory, which was where the exchange of the dead occurred. We were receiving our dead, which had been buried in North Korean graves before the establishment of the static war lines on the Kansas Line on the 38th parallel. And also, we were working returning North Korea and Chinese dead at that time. I was engaged in the fringes of that, mainly working with a photographer that was taking photos of the Operation Glory activities. Some of them are still in the memorial at the present time, when our dead were coming back, and we were sending dead back over to North Korea. I left Japan in July 1955, so I was over there for almost 2 years, and I came back to Australia. Korea had finished with then. I was just due to go over to the mine action, the emergency which was occurring over there, but was found to be, because of my injuries, no longer suitable for the infantry or active service. I retired from the Army in 1957 under the care of our Department of Veteran’s Affairs, who really have cared for me since I was 22 years old. I was re-educated through our Department of Veteran’s Affairs, became an accountant with a university degree and worked with the public service for a further 25 years until my injuries caught up with me again at the age of 48 when I was retired from public work. Since then, I’ve had another career of volunteer work for the ex-service community, mainly in welfare and bereavements, and that’s it.

>> So can you tell us a little bit about how many veterans in Australia are still remaining?

>> Sadly … Can we stop for a moment? You asked me, Hannah, how many veterans are left in Australia. There were 17,850 served in Korea from 1950 until 1956. Now, as of October last year, there were less then 3,000 of us still alive. To be in fact, there was only 2,700. They’re dying very quickly. At the present time, there would be no more than 2,400 of us left. Now, I can also give you some casualty figures of those that we lost. Those that paid the supreme sacrifice during their service in Korea was a total of 356 who lost their lives, 340 before the cease fire on July 1953, and 18 after the uneasy armistice that occurred on that date. Is there anything else that you would like?

>> POWs, missing in action?

>> Missing in action, we still have 42 that are missing in action, about half from pilots that were lost, mostly in the North. Only one that we haven’t recovered in South Korea. The rest of the missing in action are Army personnel mostly in the DMZ, which nobody can find in any case, even to this day. We suspect that some of those pilots that were lost in the North could have gone back on recoveries that have occurred by the Americans. It’s a possibility that they could have some of them in Hawaii. We’re investigating this matter at the present time by organizing a memorandum of understanding with the American authorities. Those that were recovered, of course, are all in the Hawaii cemetery, the beautiful American cemetery in Hawaii. I think it’s called the Punchbowl. Perhaps they could be, but it’s very doubtful if any of the 22 Army personnel are there. They’re mostly still in the demilitarized zone. There’s thousands of Chinese still there, and Americans, many thousands of them, still missing. That’s about all that we can say about the MIAs. Under the current regime in North Korea, I don’t think we’ll ever recover any more of those. Anyway, it’s so long ago now, what, over 60 years. What’s to recover?

>> How about POWs? Australian POWs?

>> POWs, there are very few of them alive now. I can’t tell you the exact … We had probably over 20, 25. Some of them died in captivity, three of them, to my mind. I don’t know whether we have any still alive at the present time. I think there was about less than 30 we had POWs in Australia. What else?

>> What do you think is significant about Australian contribution in the Korean War?

>> What?

>> Australia’s contribution in the Korean War unlike other countries? For example, on top of my head, I could think of is the Australians contributed all the …

>> Well, for our size, we contributed quite a lot, especially … You’ve heard some stories from two of our pilots, both from the Navy and from our own 77 Squadron, who flew there. Our Army contribution, of course, was three infantry battalions, which for our population at that time, 17,850 of us served, so for our small population of seven million was … Our actions, of course, in the infantry we contributed to several major battles: the taking of Maryang-san, which during the static war was … Although we took it in October 1951, it was lost shortly after, unfortunately, but Maryang-san was the main Chinese outpost on the Jamestown Line. That was a major battle. The Battle of Kapyong, of course. Australians and the Canadians held the line at Kapyong during the big Chinese offensive of 1951, in April 1951. The Australian battalion 3 RAR held the Chinese offensive during that time long enough, for 3 days, for them to establish the defenses around Seoul, which stopped the Northern advance. And then, of course, the static war period happened shortly after that in October 1951, where the war stayed until the armistice just about the 38th parallel. For a small force of 17,000, as I said, we lost almost 400 killed in action. Many of us were wounded and injured, like myself, I suppose. I was one of the injured. Anyway, that’s about all I can say really. It was a long time ago. My main thoughts and feelings during the time that I served was heart rending. I was so sad to see the population starving, especially children, which upset me very much as a young man. All that I can say is my … The sacrifice that the South Korea people paid was enormous, and they must be congratulated for how they’ve lifted themselves up after that disastrous time to such a prosperous country that it is today, and I’m very proud to be concerned with the recovery of Korea. They’ve done a wonderful job. That’s about all. I can’t think of anything else. I get bad thoughts when I think of what the people suffered. It was a terrible, terrible time for them. Terrible thing to see. We helped them as much as we could, of course, but we couldn’t feed the whole population. Anyway, that’s it.

>> My name is Denis Earp, Earp as in Wyatt Earp. I'm now 86 years old, but in 1950, when the Korean War broke out, I was still only 20, and I hadn't finished my flying training, but the government of South Africa asked for volunteers because for once, the United Nations was able to function as it should, by a pure accident of the Soviets having become angry at something or other, and so they didn't attend. Now at the time, the government decided that the best thing to do would be to send a fighter squadron. Having made some arrangements with the Americans so that we would pay for everything we used, all armament, fuel, aircraft, equipment, everything because all of us were volunteers, which I think makes it a little different story for many other countries. 1950, I spent in great tension following the progress of the Korean War down from the 38th Parallel down to the Pusan perimeter, the breakout at Imjin, the pursuit northwards because I was worried the war would be over before I could get there. I was a second lieutenant, as I said, still on flying training, and I didn't get my wings until December of 1950. Straight after that, Spitfire conversion and operational conversion, and then as soon as we could, we went to Korea, which I reached the end of May, 1951. Now it's a time long ago. Things are different now, but make no mistake. The Korean War was not a quarrel. It was a very big, very important, very violent war, and it made a point in stopping Soviet aggression because the manipulation of Korea was just a byproduct of the Cold War. China and Russia knew what was coming, and they were hoping to break the West's monopoly of resistance in the West. Strangely enough, I think it happened because an American foreign minister made a statement which the Chinese particularly misinterpreted. In an interview in, I think, the early '50s, he said which areas were vital for America, and he named them all over the West, but he did not mention Korea, so the Chinese and the North Koreans interpreted this as being a disengagement on the part of the United States, which it most definitely was not. But America was totally unprepared. When the Korean War broke out, South Korea was not ready for it. It was almost a miracle that the American logistics could reinforce the Pusan perimeter and mobilize allied forces quickly enough to stop having to retreat to Japan because then I think it would have been a very, very long war. In any case, as a second lieutenant, not a student of politics, just a young man, stupid as all young men are, I ended up in a very hot war. As a second lieutenant, my probability of surviving the first few combat missions were low, but you learn very quickly, or you don't survive, and quite a few of my friends were killed. Older and more experienced pilots were killed, and that's a bit of a shock to the system of a young man because you keep believing, "It cannot happen to me," but it does. And on my 65th combat mission, there was a Communist flat gunner who got lucky, and he shot me down, not immediately there, but I was able to fly for about 20 minutes, trying to get back to the lines, but I had a small fire in the cockpit. My feet were burning, and when I got to the point where I'd lost a lot of height, I knew I had to crash-land or bail out. Now the mountains in Korea are not conducive to safe forced landings, so I bailed, and I injured myself, and I had burned feet. I twisted my knee badly on landing, and 7 hours later, I was taken prisoner by the Chinese and then began a little more than 23 months of an experience which I wouldn't wish on anybody. To be a prisoner of the Communists is not a happy state of affairs, and I came very close to dying on several occasions, but by the grace of God, I didn't, and I was released after the armistice which was in July of 1953. I got out in August of '53 and was able to return home in reasonable shape, perhaps a little puzzled in my mind and a little troubled in my memories. So the war ended for me, but that war has not ended for Korea, and I think there's misery ahead for a long time. I hope it'll end peacefully, but I hope it'll still end in my lifetime, but it may not. >> Can you explain to us a little bit about your day-to-day experience at the POW camps? Because not a lot of people know what it means to be a prisoner of war. What did you eat? Were you able to wash yourself? Were you with other prisoners of war? How were the conditions like? How did you survive? >> Well, first of all, prisoners were not a common ... I beg your pardon. It's just my cell phone beeping. Prisoners were not at the moment very popular. They weren't prepared for them, neither the North Koreans nor the Chinese. Food, inadequate. No medical attention at all unless you were termed a progressive. If you offered any form of resistance or failed to cooperate, you were then classed as a reactionary, and the reactionaries didn't have a great future. So if in interrogation you resisted, remember that we'd been indoctrinated in the West to believe in the Geneva Convention. To the Chinese and the North Koreans, that was like a red flag to a bull, and immediately, if you pressed your point, you would end up in a hole in the ground, as I often did, tied with your elbows behind your back. Very little food. When it came, you ate like a dog, and your bodily functions were not catered for. You can imagine what that does to your morale after a few days but then if you're taken out and interrogation starts again or lessons. "You must study to learn the truth," was the big Communist message, and if you learn the truth, then you will have a happy daily life and we will take care of you. But if you didn't want to learn the truth and if you resisted, life was not pleasant. In the first winter at a place called [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] which was across on the Yalu River, a little way from the camp that I ended up in, about 1,500 men died, a lack of medicine, a lack of medication, a lack of food and extremely low temperatures, and the horror of that camp was that the ground was too hard to bury those who died, so they had to be laid on top of the ground and stacked until the spring came, and then they could be buried. Now that kind of environment doesn't do good for your ego. It's oppressive, and men sometimes cracked. They just couldn't take it anymore, and then they faced to the wall. Three days, they would die. We lightheartedly called it give-up-itis, but it was a serious problem. The mind definitely controls your body. If your mind says, "You've had enough. Die," you will die. If your mind says, "No. Let's stay with it. You've got a good chance of survival," and there was a lot of luck as an element. In the beginning as a prisoner, I was regularly interrogated, and we had to sit and listen to lectures every day. But later, I think particularly the Chinese realized that they were not getting anywhere, and they left us on our own. The North Koreans were particularly brutal captors. I spent a few weeks at an interrogation center outside of [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] which we called Park's Palace. Now Major Park was a very sadistic man, and he enjoyed torturing people, and torture might have been pleasant from his point of view, but it was not pleasant from the prisoner's point of view. But with a bit of luck, I survived Park's Palace. I survived a march from Pyongyang up to the Yalu River on foot and with prisoners who were not in good physical shape, and on that March, numerous prisoners died, again, bad physical condition, cold weather. The first snows came in. I was in a summer flying suit, and I got very cold, and I learned to my own horror that if I never saw snow again, pleasant as it may be to many people, I would not be sad at all. In brief, it was not a pleasant experience. I survived on the march when I got dysentery, and a friend of mine supported because if you got left behind, you knew that as soon as the group had moved along, there'd be a shot, and that would be the end. And my friend, Mikheli, physically helped me to survive the last few days until we got to [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. Unfortunately, he did at the cost of his own health because he was then diagnosed with a very, very poor heart, and after we got back to South Africa, a few months later, he died. So I owe him a life, but he gave his willingly. So that's, in brief, the story of a long time. >> You said General Park tortured. We don't understand what kind of torture you're talking. Can you explain what kind of torture? >> Well, if, for example, he wanted immediate information, such as if a prisoner had attempted to escape, then automatically, that meant it was a capitalist plot, and now you had to tell everything. Now one of the forms which was very unpleasant, they would tie you to a chair, kick the chair over backwards, put a cloth over your face and pour water on the cloth, which then sticks to your face, and you can't get breath. And after you've struggled a while, you lose consciousness, and when you come to, you're now sitting upright, coughing out water, and you get your breath back, and now we can do it all over again until you decide that you're going to give the information which they want. That was one form. Other forms were just direct beating. Some people were hung by their thumbs from a bin, and of course, they dislocated thumbs, dislocated shoulders, so physical torture is something that is not pleasant, and prisoners required a great deal of strength of character to endure and continue to resist. It didn't always help to lie because lies, as often do [INAUDIBLE]. So let's say that being put in a hole without food and water and tied up for a few days is also torture. Then that's not pleasant either. >> Were you able to wash yourselves? >> Not when you're in the hole. You had nothing. You mess yourself, and that does bad things to your morale. When you're not being interrogated or being punished, then you're with a group of prisoners who are all classed as reactionaries. In there, you had a reasonable chance of acting normally, bearing in mind that in a Communist system, there are always informers, and you don't know who they are, and the system works in this way that they ask the one informer what happened in that room on that morning, who said what, and he gives a report. Then they've got another informer who informer one doesn't know, and they ask him the same questions so the two informers can cross inform and get the truth. So you were never free to speak, even to your friends. If you wanted to speak, you would walk onto the open ground in front of the schoolhouse, which was prison, and there you could talk, but you had to be very careful because you could be turned in easily. >> Did they speak English? How did they interrogate you? >> Well ... >> Chinese or Korean ... >> Chinese ... >> They spoke English? >> Yeah. Some of them very good English. Some had been educated in universities in England and America. >> Okay. >> The Koreans also spoke very good English, and of course, there were always Russians that you knew were there because Russians smoked a cigarette which had a cardboard for the mouthpiece, so if you saw a couple of those lying on the ground, you knew Russians were giving the Chinese or the Koreans the questions to ask. >> And what kind of questions did they ask? >> Luckily, most of them were very stupid questions. Initially, they wanted to know, what squadron were you? Who was the squadron commander? Who was the second-in-command? How many men in your flight? How many airplanes? What kind of airplanes? How fast? How high? How many guns? How many bombs? How many rockets? Which are of no value except tactically, and after a few days, that interrogation has no further value except it builds up a pattern that the person being interrogated is going to answer, and I didn't realize that until right in the beginning. I had never been briefed [INAUDIBLE]. "What is your father's name?" I said, "That's got nothing to do with you." "Oh, you are not cooperating." "No, I'm not cooperating." "I'm sticking to the Geneva Convention." Then we get a long lecture on the lenient policy in which you not be killed, you will not be maltreated, provided you cooperate. Now on the question of my father's name, the guy was very polite about it. He said, "All right. If you won't answer, we will give you a little time to think about it," and they put me in a hole in the ground, and they tied me up, and they let me stay there for 2 days, and when I came out, the interrogator said, "Have you thought?" I said, "Yes, I've thought." He said, "And what is the answer? What is your father's name?" And I said, "I'm not going to tell you. It's got nothing to do with you." He said, "Come." He marched me up a hill with a squad of soldiers, stood me up against a tree. He didn't have the soldiers point a gun at me. He took out his pistol, and he cocked it, and he said, "Would you like a blindfold?" And I said, "No, thank you," and he aimed the pistol between my eyes, and he pulled the trigger, and it went click. I'll tell you, that's an incredible psychological letdown when you think you're going to die and you don't. So along that pattern, I realized, if there's a question, you've got to have an answer. Whether it's a lie or not is immaterial, but you will answer, and that's how interrogation builds up. Always the small questions first and then later the political questions, and that's what they were interested in, but we were not politicians. We were professional soldiers, second lieutenants who knew very little about a lot of things, but we survived. >> So did you eventually give your father's name? >> I gave my father's name. >> I think I heard that some of your worst torturers were women. Tell me about that. >> No, I never had women torturers. There were women nurses that we saw in the hospitals, but we never got to a hospital because we were reactionaries. >> And about lice. >> Lice? >> Dealing with lice because you weren't showering. >> Well, lice is something I'd never had in my life, but after being along on a march and stop at a village, they put you in a room. The next morning, you itch, and the itch gets worse, and then somebody says, "The reason you're itching is you've got lice," so if you've got a spare minute, get into your clothes, find the lice and kill them. It makes you feel better, and you can imagine if you're tied up, the torture of having lice all over you. For somebody who's not used to it, maybe for the locals it didn't matter, but for me, it meant a lot. >> And some prisoners had to eat lice to survive, I heard. >> Well, you ate whatever you could. If you could take something clean off the side of the road in the summer, eat it because your food was essentially two bowls, small bowls, of rice per day, but on that you actually suffering from avitaminosis, beriberi, eye night blindness, illness for which you could be given medicine if you were not a reactionary. >> And in the camp, were you mixed with other nationalities? >> Yes, mainly Americans, but in the camp I was in, there were some Turks. There were Filipinos, the South Africans, and I'm trying to think who else. My memory is not as good as it should be, possibly because I don't think back to those days with any great pleasure. >> Were you mixed? >> Yes. >> Or were you segregated? >> Mixed. >> Mixed. >> Interrogation, solitary, only by yourself. >> I hope many survived like you did. >> South Africans, eight. >> Out of how many prisoners of war? >> Eight. >> There were eight prisoners of war, but they all survived? >> South Africans, yes. >> [INAUDIBLE]. >> The last man was shot down 3 days before armistice, and he was perhaps the luckiest guy ever because he lost 40 pounds in weight in 40 days, and he was never seriously interrogated. >> On armistice, which was July 27th, 1953, you were released? >> Not then. We got released much later. I had made a mistake early on when I was a prisoner. They said, "You are an officer." I said, "Yeah, second lieutenant, very senior." They said, "You must know many things about what bombs do." I said, "I suppose so." They said, "Well, we are subject to unwarranted attacks by the Americans and the Wall Street warmongers, so you will now show us how to build a bombproof bomb shelter." I said, "Okay." So I explained to them how I thought a bomb shelter should be built quite incorrectly, but I then was the foreman, and the Chinese built according to my directions, and we'd almost finished when we were attacked by fighters from my wing, and the bomb shelters collapsed, as I knew they would, but when I was in the bomb shelter, I stuck close to the wall. The guard went in deep and when the shelter collapsed broke his back and killed him. So then I spent a very unpleasant few days being beaten up, and after that, I built the bomb shelters, and our whole platoon of Chinese, they were the supervisors. And because of that, I was tried by a Chinese court. I was given a defense lawyer who pleaded for the death penalty, and he got it. They sentenced me to death for sabotage, but then they said they would not execute the sentence yet, but every time I went for interrogation after that, they'd remind me, and that's why I didn't get released too quickly after armistice, and I didn't know if they would release me until the very end. So I got released in the end of August. >> One month later. >> Mm-hmm. >> But did you know that there was an armistice signed? >> I knew there was an armistice. >> How were you informed about it? >> Well, first of all, we notice stoppage of air flights, the first thing. Then we noticed the Chinese were not quite so hostile. Within 2 days, they formed us up on the playground, and we knew they were going to announce armistice, and we as prisoners said, "Don't show any emotion." So the Chinese commander got up and spoke in Chinese, and then it gets translated into English, and nobody moved. The Chinese commander got very angry and yelled at the interpreter and said, "Did you tell them?" And he said, "Yes," and he told us again, and nobody moved, and this puzzled the Chinese no end. They couldn't understand it, and it gave us a great deal of satisfaction. >> So you all planned this. >> We planned it. >> Wow. All different nationalities, you all just remained calm. >> And that included the people we knew were informers and traitors because they knew we'd tear them to pieces if they didn't. >> Did they come back? Did they return? >> I believe quite a few of them faced court marshals in the States, at any rate. Sad, but that's how people are. You look after yourself. >> [INAUDIBLE]. >> When you're starving, you can bribe a man very easily with a bowl of very inferior food or maybe some medicine for serious illnesses. >> Oh, show your hands. It breaks my heart. >> We're not sure what caused that, but it damaged the skin, and I think that was because at one stage in the winter when it was very, very cold, they would stand me outside and tie me to a pole with no cover for my hands, and they'd wait just until the frostbite started, and then they would take me into a warm room. Now I don't know if you've ever had frostbite, but when it thaws, it is extremely painful, and this was a very easy way that didn't threaten my life but softened me. You tend to become less resistant when you're treated that way. In any case, I survived those days, and I came back, and I managed to survive another war which lasted 20 years, and in the end, I ended up as the chief of the Air Force, so I couldn't really complain about my career. >> A general. >> From second lieutenant to a general. >> But most of all, that's just so fascinating because most people ... You didn't just go fight and return, but you suffered for almost 2 years as a prisoner, like you said, with your morale, usurping the dignity out of the human being. Most people would want nothing to do with any war, period, so why did you decide to stay in the military in the force? >> Well, I found that I'd enjoyed my part of the war. I didn't like the part being a prisoner, but by accident of circumstances, I had several flight commanders shut down, and there were no replacements, so they made me as a second lieutenant an acting flight commander, and I found I had an aptitude for leading a flight in combat and achieving great success in attacks on ground targets. So when I came back, I had a choice. I could leave, or I could stay, but at that stage, things were reasonably peaceful, and my option would have been to go to airways and fly as an airline pilot, but my nature was not of that ilk. It wouldn't have worked for me, so I stayed, and it wasn't long in this troubled country that we were in conflict again. So I found I had a natural aptitude for military operations, and that's why I stayed. >> And you said you went back to Korea. Could you just briefly explain your first impression? >> 1986, I in fact went on an official visit to Taiwan, and while we were there, we contacted Mr. [INAUDIBLE] who was the then Korean minister of, I think, prisoner affairs, and he said, "Well, why don't you come and visit? Officially, we cannot admit you." They had just at that time refused entry to our minister of defense and our minister of foreign affairs, but in my case, they decided I should go. They treated me like a king. We'd be riding in an elevator up to that very tall building in Seoul 65 floors high, and Mr. [INAUDIBLE] would say to the people, "This man here is a veteran of the Korean War," and they would all smile and come and want to shake my hand, and then he said, "And he was shot down and was a prisoner for 2 years," and then they all wanted to hug me. That's how they were. They were just grateful to see a veteran of the Korean War. They treated me like royalty. The Air Force invited me to a dinner. I was able to lay a wreath at a memorial for the Cluster Regiment on the Imjin River, and as I said, it was a wonderful experience to see the Korea which was devastated rebuilt. And it's interesting. People ask me, "You go to a Korean War, and you didn't even win. What did you achieve?" I say, "Well, let's look at this way. North Korea is the most repressive Stalinist country in the world where there is no freedom, great human rights violations and terrible abuses of people. South Korea is the most progressive open society that you can imagine, and you say we didn't win? I think we did." >> I think so too. >> Good. >> Actually, I know so because I'm here. >> All right. But remember, I was talking then in 1986. I know things have changed a bit now, but South Korea is still prospering. I think your economy is about third or fourth in the world, and I'm glad. >> Well, I hope you're very proud. >> Thank you. >> Thank you.

>> So I was in Brownville, and I was a lieutenant, first lieutenant, with the Third Battalion Royal Australian Regiment in the Korean War. I had my full 12-back then, and 3 days waiting for an airplane back, 3 days was ... and I served in the Citizen Forces for some years after that. I was a company commander, and what else would you like? >> Some of the duties that you had in Korea. >> Well, they used to say it was a Ten Commandments war. We were out there doing patrols nearly every night and making sure that the opposition didn't get too close to us, and if he did, then he scared and bothered because we sorted him out. And very growing up time because I was only 22, and a lot of my sorties had been in the Second World War, and they were 30 years old, and so it was a swift learning curve for a young lieutenant, to have all those older men with the experience, and I was a reinforcement officer. I went up and replaced an officer who'd been killed, and it was a good place to come back from but a wonderful experience, great experience growing up. >> I know you're very ... You have a photographic memory you said. >> I can't hear you. >> You have a photographic memory, you said. >> Yes. >> And you ... I know you can read beyond just the surface. What do you remember about this war? >> Well, I was very thankful that we had air supremacy. We didn't have to worry about air, but I can very vividly remember night patrols and being in positions where we were heavily mortared and shelled by the enemy. I vividly remember them, as I imagine everybody would remember, but maybe, you know, position of trust and responsibility to our troops was rather humbling actually, so I had a lot of work to do there, quite a lot of work to do. Try and save their lives was maybe ... >> This war never ended, you know, and some of the people from all over the world sacrificed their lives and they died, even on the other side, and there's no peace, and there's no reconciliation. >> Do you know? I have a theory that I've never mentioned. You know, for years, on the continent, the Balkans have always been kept neutral so that other countries could move through there. Now I think that suits the Japan ... or the Chinese and Russians to have top of Korea and the Americans, it suits them to have the bottom because if the Chinese had the lot, then the Russians had us jumping for to go into Japan and America. If America had the lot or was [INAUDIBLE], they could jump onto China and Russia. Well, it's never mentioned, and they say, "Oh, we'll have to unite," and the Korean people would love it. I think it suits both of those people to have them separate. Have you ever heard that. >> No, but I'd listen to ... >> That's by Mark [INAUDIBLE]. >> Are you retired as an Army chaplain, right? >> I never was an Army chaplain. I had retired from the Army at the age of 16, and I was in the civi industry, and I suddenly found and studied theology, so I spent 8 years studying at the theology college part-time because I was in shipping. And during that time, the Victorian Council and the churches put me on the Board of Industrial Mission, and I was so impressed with them, I don't have the words here, that when I graduated, I became one of their chaplains from the understanding that I didn't run a managerial job. I wanted to be out helping people, so I had 28 years of that. Now I'm bordering on [INAUDIBLE]. >> And you've seen many veterans pass away? >> I've buried a lot of them. Yeah. >> I'm so glad to be here, and I'm so glad that you brought up, you know, Moroccan solution and the enemy and just the lives, you know, because I truly believe that every life is precious before God, and, you know, that we don't choose. We really don't choose who to fight, you know? And ... >> It's a very complex world, and the best one can do is ... My father was told, when he was 5, by his mother ... She was a very clever woman. She said ... although she said other children, she said, "When you grow up, men throughout the world will listen to what you say with regard to your profession. Never, even espouse any cause or sign any document that your conscience isn't fully at ease," and that's how I was brought up. >> I believe that. Kind of like earlier I said, "God, I'm only going to do what my heart tells me to do." >> Yes. That's the game. >> I thank you so much for ... >> It helps you to sleep a lot better than ... >> Oh, yes. Absolutely. Yeah. I do feel that, you know, even if I can wake up, even if I could foregone, I could say, "God, I did I my best. I really did." >> Mm-hmm. >> You know? And thank you for the greatest compliment I've ever received in my life. Without a doubt, I will take with me ... >> And coupled with that, after all, is that you're an exceptionally beautiful woman. >> Thank you. >> So it's, very, very great [INAUDIBLE] to find a beautiful combination. >> Thank you. >> I'm really a better man for having met you and your philosophy. >> Thank you. I pray and hope and dedicate my life so that ... >> And what will happen when you get back? How are you going to use this travel? I won't bore you with certain occasions when it's amazing I wasn't killed and various times, and I believe that I was being saved to do the work I'm doing today. >> I believe so too. >> I think so. >> I know so. >> Yeah? >> And because you've had many near-death experiences, you can empathize, and you know and understand things that other people can't, and it's an honor to point where I'm grateful that I also experienced a near-death experience and pain because even though I was very young, I'm able to kind of see the invisible pain that many people are experiencing, whether physical, emotional or psychological, and again, you know, one of my great passions is to visit my grandpas and let them know that ... Because many of them, like I've said, they have nightmares, they said. You know? Remembering the war, and I say, "You know, the war is atrocious, and it's ugly and horrific, but out of that bleakness sometimes you can find roses." And here I am. I can represent some good that came out of the war, so ... >> Indeed. And I just cannot believe, having traveled a lot, how a country which was bereft of trees, the Japanese most of all, which a mud heap, in 63 years ... as I said, the people flying over in time [INAUDIBLE] makes Sydney and Melbourne look like villages ... >> I know. >> And each time ... I've been back six times. Each time there's been so many more improvements, and I remember going around, and they've spent ages, everyone, putting trees around everywhere. And I went to show ... I was sent over to take some students there and then on to Gallipoli, and I was going to show them where the Battle of Kapyong took place. >> Mm. >> And that was not possible because instead of being able to see two miles down the road, I couldn't see more than 20 yards through all the trees they'd put in. >> You know, it's remarkable, and thanks to your contributions. >> From here to the end of the table and that round, when I was at Kapyong in 1995, they'd just trimmed some of the trees. >> Mm. >> And I got the branch off a ginko biloba on the B Company position, the Three Battalion at the Battle of Kapyong, and I have that at home. >> Wow. >> And I'm going to give it to Three Battalion one day. >> Wow. >> Yeah.

– Pero mis tíos fueron a pelear también y donde yo peleé, pelearon ellos, uno de ellos murió en mis brazos, lo enterré y regresé de nuevo, pero yo sé lo que es un hijo cuando está guerreando, cuando se manda a sitios a pelear, donde uno ha estado pasando… Y pasando malos tragos en la guerra. Así que yo también siento como padre y como hijo, siento como hijo porque sé lo que sintió mi madre, sintió mi padre cuando yo partí.
– No.
– Y nosotros, nosotros apreciamos todo el esfuerzo que hacen por nosotros, somos, fuimos soldados y somos soldados porque el soldado una vez sigue siendo soldado todavía, pero siempre hay alma.
– Sí.
. Hay agradecimiento y amor. Okay.
– Y gracias muchísimo, padre.
– And there’s a picture…