>> ... the two mounds, which the shrine is in the middle of ... >> Okay. >> ... are in the shape of the ying and yang. >> Oh. Who designed it? >> An architect in [INAUDIBLE]. The original one was done by a student here at Heriot-Watt University. >> Mm-hmm. >> But the new memorial was done by an architect [INAUDIBLE]. >> Hmm, yep, and we brought the ... >> The fir. >> We brought the tiler from ... >> Korea. >> ... Korea and 10 tons of tiles. >> All these tiles came from Korea. >> They're all genuine old tiles from Korea. >> And the fir, the tree, the tree ... >> The trees came over [INAUDIBLE]. >> And were grown ... They were grown for us at the Botanical Gardens ... >> Botanic Gardens. >> ... in Edinburgh. And then ... >> Wow. >> Then the second place [INAUDIBLE]. >> Shotts Prison. >> Wow. >> Yeah. Once they got too big for the ... >> Botanic Gardens. >> ... Botanic Gardens to hold them ... >> We look for some place to grow them on because they were still in pots, and they went to one of the biggest prisons in Scotland. >> Prison? >> Prison, prison, and they grew them on for us. >> Yes. Yeah. The architect originally wanted the green oak that the shrine is built of to be kept yellow with oil, but I actually wanted it to go gray like this so it would actually match with the tiles on the roof, and so that's why it's all now gray although ... >> [INAUDIBLE] in the navy. >> All thousand ... How many? Sixty-eight thousand seventy? >> One thousand [INAUDIBLE]. >> These trees have been planned in memory of veterans of a branch who have since passed away, and we have a lot of plaques and each one a remembrance. That's our latest one we've [INAUDIBLE].

-Me llamo Hermelindo Unchala Cisneros. Batallé en el Batallón Colombia,cuando viajé a Corea en 1952. Fuimos a relevar a la compañía Cota. Pero como a la compañía Cota la hunden... los desaparecieron, pues. Quedaron nueve soldados nada más de la Cota, compañía Cota. Duré año y medio en Corea. Y nada, no me puedo, no pasó nada. Aquí estoy. - ¿Quieres, esto, explicar...? - Distintivo de, de la paz de Corea. Distintivo la paz de Corea. - Hombre de paz. - Sí, soy hombre de paz. [HABLAN AL TIEMPO] - Hombre de paz. - Corea de paz. - Hombre de paz. - ¿Sí? ¿Por qué? [HABLAN AL TIEMPO] [VOCES INDISTINTAS] ¿Y coreanos dicen "gracias" muchísimo? ¿Sí? - Sí, muy bien. Todos, gracias. - ¿Visita a Corea? - No, no he visitado. - ¿No? ¿Quiero? ¿Quiere? - Sí, claro. - ¿Sí? ¿Cuántos años tiene usted? - No, ya tengo 82, 84. - 84. [MAULLIDO] ¿Y qué se, qué se piensa que...? [MAULLIDO]

>> When I was in Korea, the sergeant told me to write pages [INAUDIBLE] for you, and I [INAUDIBLE] restraining regiment, and we had the signal hut which was this one here originally built by the Canadians on hill 355 which I think [INAUDIBLE] are in there. Oh, just jumping. That's when I first arrived in Korea all smart and signal office, and I first arrived there. You see it says, ,"Signal Office." Very naive, not knowing what to do, but, you know, learned very quickly. That's after about 3 months in Korea. See the difference between the smartness one and on after being in the frontline? Being in the frontline, do you see the difference in my dress? That's that. That's during the winter. We was just stuck in the ice. I figured [INAUDIBLE] was but we couldn't move, but we eventually got pulled out by a tank. This here, very difficult to see, very difficult to see, but these two photographs here, the helicopter is coming in to pick up the wounded, [INAUDIBLE] to I think it was the American mesh which we had to call in with coat signs and everything. That's me showing off with American carbine which I swapped with an American which must have frightened the Chinese North Koreans, must not it if they saw me there. This here is a Christmas card left on the barbed wire by the North Koreans and/or Chinese with toothpaste, razor blades, etc, etc, and the wording is very, very, very good because it's aimed in the English colloquial language, so once you start reading it, you understand what it's saying about American Imperialist, things like that. I'm not sure many more photographs that I think was taken in rest somewhere, you see. This is a story run by the Daily Mail in December the 27th, 2013 by a man called Tony Randal about the Korean War. "Bloodbath that nearly drowned the world," and he gives the political aspect of what communism was going to do if it really ran the world. So what I did, I wrapped this in paper, and I wrote this story. I wrote this little thing here which you may want to ... Should I read it? >> Yes. >> I was there. Please keep this for my grandsons, great-grandsons and all the descendants. This is what it looked like, and on many occasions, much worse. I shared a hoochie, a dugout, with other young servicemen, Brian who was 20 years old, a bit older than me. I was 19, and [INAUDIBLE] lived with his gran. One morning, 1952, he said, "I do not want to wake you up because the rats are eating their bars of chocolate, sandbags, next to your head, and I thought if you moved, it would jump on you." At 12:00 that day, he was dead. That's war, and that's what I put, and so I hope that descendants and descendants, descendants, remember. It really was the last real conventional war that there was, not that that made it any good or any better, but that's that. So this can be found in the Daily Mail archives on December the 27th, 2013 by Tony Randal, a historian which reminds people that war never achieves anything. It just takes the lives of young men, the cream of all societies whatever nation they're in. >> [INAUDIBLE] >> That's it. I [INAUDIBLE] national servicemen, but I do say they're just as scared as we are and didn't want to be there any more than we did. I'm glad we could help. Signing off. Young boy.

>> I am Adam McKenzie. I'm a member of the Bathgate branch of the Korean Veterans Association. I served in Korea from 1950 to 1951. I was stationed in Hong Kong when we were first told we were going to Korea. Nobody knew where Korea was. We boarded a Royal Navy ship and 4 days later arrived in Pusan. At that time, the Korean Army and the American Army were the only United Nation troops present in Korea, and they were [Indistinct] in a river called the Nakdong. We were moved up to there, and the Royal ... the Middlesex regiment and the Third Australian regiment, who were joined us just days later, crossed the Nakdong and made the breakout from it. That is why we have the only medal for the defense of the Nakdong. That medal, there was under 3,000 people entitled to wear it. It was the Middlesex regiment, the Third Australians and the Argylls. There is under 100 of us left today. After the breakout in Nakdong, we progressed up through South Korea and though we were probably 30 miles inside North Korea when the powers that be stopped us and ordered us to be dumped in 38th parallel.. During that time, the Chinese Army came in, and because we were on withdrawal, instead of the attack, we got pushed frankly back to where we started again. However, we started to regain country again, until we handed over to the King's Own Scottish Borderers in June 1951. We then returned to Hong Kong. [INAUDIBLE] got into any episodes that happened during then. >> [INAUDIBLE] you went in with no winter clothing. >> We had no winter coats. We had no winter clothing. We left Hong Kong thinking Korea was a tropical country, which it is during the summer, but not during the winter. We had no ordnance supply whatsoever. We were fed by the Americans. For clothing, bedding, etcetera, we begged, borrowed or stole off the Americans and the Third Australians. And we managed to live that way for a year. The Americans fed us. The only thing we had supplied from the British government was ammunition, nothing else. And we managed to survive for a year, and we were one of the only regiments that never lost a man with frostbite, although we had American dikes crossing the river which was frozen solid. Our vehicles sometimes were frozen in the morning when you tried to move them, etcetera, but we survived. Now basically, there's various episodes we could talk about. Like, Sariwon is one. We arrived at a town called Sariwon at approximately 3 o'clock in the afternoon. We asked for American tank support to take the town. The Americans said, "No, it's too late. Our tanks will be coming into town in the darkness, and we'll lose them." So we went into Sariwon without the tanks and took the town. The Third Australian then marched through us and took up a defensive position in front of Sariwon. We returned to the other side there and met the North Koreans and the Chinese coming in on the back wood. Because we were facing the wrong direction and we never wore steels helmets or anything, we wore a scarf tied up on our heads, they mistook us for Russians. And we back marched them, came round the back, contacted the Third Australian Regiment. We turned to face the opposite direction. We came in behind, and we took over 3,000 prisoners without firing a round of ammunition, nice. A very big problem for us was on the 23rd of September, 1950. On the 22nd, we took over a hill called 282 from the Americans who had been sitting on the hill for approximately a week and couldn't move off it. We took it over the 22nd, and on the 23rd, we put an attack in. Because the maps, etcetera, were so out-of-date and inaccurate, we didn't realize the next feature overlooked it. We took Hill 282, realized we're in a position where the enemy could look down on us and fire down on us, so we called for air support. Now air support was supplied by the Americans. We were supposed to put things out as air recognition panels. They were red, yellow and blue, and you put them out each day in a different design on the reverse of the hill. We did this. The Americans because they'd been dropping everything for 7 days on the one feature, came straight in and dropped the same load. The only problem was we were underneath it. We lost nothing, not one. Major Muir, who was our second-in-command, won Victoria Cross. It's a day we will never forget. >> Why is there a Korean War Memorial in Bathgate? >> Why is the memorial in Bathgate? Well I'm going back 20-something-odd years, and we decided we would do something, and at that time, I was the area rep. I covered the three branches that was in Scotland: the Northern Branch of Inverness, the Perth Branch and the Bathgate Branch. And I went to Birmingham for an executive meeting, and you had to put your propositions in 21 days before you attended. To me this was foolhardy because it gave the executive committee time to contact all the members, discuss it and make up their mind what we're going to do. Now there was only 13 area reps, but there was 22 executive members sat on the table, so if they disagree with you, you could be outvoted without any problem. I went down, and the proposition I put in that we were going to build a memorial was read out, and the chairman General Gadd, told me I was mad. I would never get it off the ground. All it done was reinforced us. I came back here, and I told all three branches that I was wasting my time and their money because it was pointless of me to go to Birmingham to the meetings, and that I resigned as area rep. We then we got together and contacted all the local councils, etcetera. We done collections, etcetera, and eventually we built our first memorial. In hindsight, we done it wrong. We didn't have sufficient capital to build what we wanted. However, we decided to go ahead with it, and we built it. And after we built it, we realized it wasn't really what we wanted. So we carried on, and we collected more money and funds, and almost 4 years ago, we knocked down the old memorial and rebuilt a brand-new one. Now since we built this new memorial, and [INAUDIBLE] put us down to one man, we brought a roofer all the way from Korea to put the roof on our memorial. All the tiles, etcetera, on it came from Korea. This man came and spent 1 week. The roof weighs over 4 tons. There is not one nail, one drop of cement in the whole building of that roof. And I think, by what I've heard since, he must obviously have spoke to people back in Korea after he returned there because we are getting feedback from the people in Korea who ... Yeah. That's basically ... >> That's amazing. >> You remember his name? >> Who? >> The Korean workman. >> No. No. No. What we done, we brought him here, and we found a family in Edinburgh who run a Korean ... >> [INAUDIBLE]? >> No, Korean restaurant, and they lived in Edinburgh. And what we done, we picked him up in the morning, brought him out to site, picked him up and night and took him back again. And it just so happens that one of our members was married to a Korean, and she used to come out and do an interpreter to pass on information to him. Because ... You possibly don't know this, but we've got the Korean Presbyterian Church coming here on the 28th of June. Now he was obviously a church member because that was the first thing he asked when we picked him up from the airport, where could he find a Korean church, as it was Sunday and he normally went to church on a Sunday. So we think he has passed the information on after he's done it. >> Explain what you're holding in your hand. >> I am holding this ... >> Show it to us. >> ... It has two names. It has two names. It's known as a Syngman Rhee Medal or the Nakdong Medal. It was issued to the troops who done the defense of the Nakdong in June 1950, when the whole lot was really pushed out and the country was actually in a point of being overrun. We couldn't wear this because we didn't have a British medal to counterbalance it when it was issued to us. The only way we could wear it is on the right-hand side here, which very few ever do. We keep it like this and we still have. Not for the complete time, but for 2,000 or not 3,000, the Middlesex Regiment, the third Australian Regiment and the Argylls were the only troops ever to be issued with it and the only troops entitled to wear it. That was under 2,000 or 3,000. There is less than 100 of us actually left now. >> How many died out of the 3,000? How many died out of the 3,000? What were the casualties of Scottish veterans? >> I have no idea. I have no idea of the total. I know what the total was for the British people for the complete time, but for sure not 3,000, not unless you pay [INAUDIBLE]. A very good friend of mine was in front of me the night we crossed, and what we done to break out the Nakdong, we had an officer who was a very good swimmer, and he swam the Nakdong at nighttime and took ropes across it, and we built a bridge. It was approximately 18 inches to 2 feet wide, and we walked across that one night. Got in everything we required with us. The man in front of me got hit by an SB gun shell or shrapnel from a shell and fell on the bridge in front of me. There I had two options: I could either pass my weapon to the man behind me and pick him up or push him into the river so as I could get off the bridge along with the other people behind us. We picked him up. He's still alive today, but nobody knew about this until many, many years later, in fact at his 70th birthday party, when he admitted he wouldn't be here except for what happened that night. >> What's that? >> What is that? That is my cap. That is the cap of the Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders. It is the largest badge in the British Army, and the only badge with Victoria Cross in it, which was way back long, long before even our time. >> Have you been back to Korea? >> Yes. I've done a revisit to Korea and was very surprised. Disappointed in one or two things, but surprised, basically because when I left Korea, Korea was in ruins. There was hardly a tarmac road in it. There was no bridges across the rivers, etcetera. Now there's so many roads and so many bridges, etcetera, they've even changed the name of the town. Where I landed was Pusan. Now it's called Busan. I've done a revisit. I done the [INAUDIBLE] at the memorial ... at the garden house ... the cemetery at Busan and also visited the car factory, and I actually drive one of their cars now. I can't go back because I can't get travel insurance because age ... I'm almost 90 years of age. Insurance companies just won't insure you any longer. So I'm the same as a lot of them who are getting too old, and insurance companies, etcetera, don't worry with us. >> Well, what do you think about the armistice between the two Koreas? The war never ended. >> The war will never end in Korea. I've seen an article, quite recently in fact. I can't remember who wrote it, etcetera, and they reckon they will see North and South Korea united and becoming one country again. I do not believe this will ever happen. There is too big a gulf between the cultures in North Korea and South Korea, but South Korea has problems. You have 15 million people who live in Seoul. They live in 15, 18-story buildings. There is no wildlife around the country, birds, etcetera. You don't see them. Where are they going to put population if it keeps increasing? They can't keep going up. They can't go out, so where are they going to go? Pusan is the same. Pusan has 10 million. It's multistory buildings. Where is the population going to go? I don't know. I'd agree you have prospered and have developed, but I think they're going to have to look at what they do to carry on your development within the country. >> Any other words for people watching this? >> Any ... >> Other comments for people watching this? >> No, no. I'd like to know, why is there no wildlife in the country? Even when we went right up to the 38th parallel, etcetera, [INAUDIBLE] the only birds you see is little fat ones that's so far fed and slow, they can't get off the ground to fly. Pigeons is the only bird that I saw the whole time I was in Korea. What I did do when I was in Korea, I don't know if you've ... Have you ever met a gentleman called Andrew Salmon? You have? >> I've not met him, but I know of him. >> I worked with him when he done his last book, "Scorched Earth, Black Snow." I worked with Andrew when he was over in this country and researching that book, and dug up various people for him to interview, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera. I met up with both him and his good lady when I ... on a visit back to Korea. He stopped being an author because I don't know what you're going to do with all this, after 65 years, if you tried this in a book, I think your number of books selling will be quite low. This is why Andrew gave up writing books, and I believe now he does his tour guide, taking people round about to where different battles were, like the Hook and some things. >> He still writes a column for one of the newspapers. >> Okay. >> And then we said, "Well, we're not ready to go. We don't have a driver for the train." So we had to use of our own members to actually just drive the train to take us up to where the Nakdong was, where we could [INAUDIBLE]. They didn't even have a train driver. Quite honestly, the country was in ... We got told that within 24 hours we had left Hong Kong and boarded a Royal Navy ship for 4 days later we're in Korea. So we had a 5-day period in which we got in there. As you also know, the 21 countries took part, but we were the first United Nation troops ever to go into Korea because the Americans weren't classified as United because they had been there beforehand. >> [INAUDIBLE]. >> ... supplied us with a platoon, 4-inch mortars. When they came to us they were under the influence and under the American way of working, and we changed them, and after they came to us for proper treatment, they didn't want to go back. They realized it. Our system was far better than their system, and they didn't want to go back to their own unit after about 3 months with us. I think that's Alan. Could you check? >> I will do. >> Did you go when it was unveiled? >> I was there, yes, I was there. I was very friendly with the PA to the Ambassador. She's gone back. She's now back working in Korea, but Jin and I were very friendly and I went there, and she was here when I arrived that morning, and I go in and ... >> So explain about the memorial there. >> I don't think it ... quite honestly the memorial is not ... there's no names on it. All right. It's a bronze statue, but the equipment is American, and it's something that we never used. >> The one in Bathgate, the Korean War Memorial, has names? The one in Bathgate? Bathgate Korean War Memorial has names? >> Yes, 1,089 names on it, every name of every man. In fact when we built the first memorial, when we built our first memorial we were getting people coming and visiting us and saying, "I tipped in at your memorial. So-and-so is wrong. So-and-so is wrong. So-and-so is wrong." So there was 40 of us got together, and we decided we'd contact every regiment, every Royal Navy ship, every RAF station that had people in Korea and ask them to give us an up-to-date record from their point, rather than use the one which they got from the Ministry of Defense, which we used the first time. We found a Lieutenant Colonel [INAUDIBLE] in Scotland, various other things, etcetera now, and as far as I'm concerned, that is the most up-to-date and accurate record, if people go. Where we even got four news reporters who was filming. There's one thing on it we do know. There was a boy sailor who was killed, but because he was a boy, they cannot record them as a boy without British rules and regulations, so they made him a Naval Seaman. He was on the HMS Jamaica. >> Oh, I didn't know that. >> And he was a boy sailor and he was one of the very first killed. I'll point him out to you, but he's on the roll as a naval boy [INAUDIBLE], but we knew that was wrong.

>> …threat. I’m Norman Lee. You want to know when I was first in Korea, October 1951, flying from an aircraft carrier from the Royal Australian Navy, flying Firefly aircraft. Our task was interdiction, which meant we had to keep all the roads closed, and our weaponry was bombs, so we did a lot of bombing of bridges, et cetera. Interestingly enough, we found that you can bomb a bridge, straddle it, and the bridge is not damaged. Am I going into too much technical detail here?

>> No.

>> No. So we decided to do low-level bombing with delay fuses, a 27 delay between the bomb hitting the ground and exploding, four aircraft. Me, the last aircraft in, I had to get in within 27 seconds. Obviously I did because I’m still here. Interesting things, we operated out of Guri, the carrier, out of Guri and Sasebo. We alternated between the two. We were on patrol for 10 days in the Yellow Sea. We alternated with American aircraft carriers. We were there for 5 months.

We relieved a Royal Navy aircraft carrier, and it came back and relieved us. It went down to Australia to be refitted. Highlights? I remember taking a group to Iwakuni to do a test flight on an aircraft, and on the way back, we were still in uniform because it was still wartime. We stopped at a Russia bar, and it was still dead flat, and we wandered around. We were looking for somebody to get something to eat like today, and we came across what we thought was an eating place, and we walked in, and obviously we weren’t very welcome, and it turned out that it was a private place, and then they realized we’d made a mistake, and then they welcomed us. They took us out the back, sat us down, and we had a cow sukiyaki as they called it, lots of acai beer, and then they put us onto the train back to Guri so good fun. Highlights? We went through a terrific typhoon, Typhoon Ruth. We lost aircraft off the flight deck because of the weather. The flight deck is 44 feet above the water level, and we lost a tractor off the front of the island and a boat from behind the island, so you can see how the waves at 44 feet were [INAUDIBLE]. The ship rolled 35 degrees, which is a lot of rolling in an aircraft carrier. What else can I tell you? Ask me a question.

>> Do you remember seeing some of the civilians?

>> Oh, yes, Korean. Interesting, I took the mail from the ship into Gimpo, and as a result, I went into Seoul. In Seoul, there wasn’t a building standing that didn’t have a hole in it, and the only bridge was in the river, in the Han. And when I went back about 15 years ago, multistory buildings and, what, 17 bridges across the Han now, very prosperous country. Two of my course mates were shot down during the Korean War. They both survived, very interesting. We lost 10 aircrafts, shot down. We lost three pilots killed. We incurred 90 instances of damage to aircraft in the aircraft fire. Anyway, when it came time to come home we did. We arrived in Australia and as if we had never been away. There was no … not like Vietnam where there was lots of anti. It was just the flow. We’d never been away, and we went straight into peacetime routine, and that was that. What more can I tell you?

>> So …

>> I’ll tell you a little interesting story.

>> Mm-hmm.

>> We had destroyers and frigates, surface ships, operating all the time, and you would have seen pictures of the Thames in London. There’s a cruiser sitting in the Thames, HMS Belfast and Tobruk. Tobruk was an Australian destroyer, and Belfast was a Royal Navy cruiser. We were on the east coast doing shore bombardment where the pilot directs the fall of shot from the ships. All right? Are you still with me?

>> Mm-hmm.

>> Good. Stay with me. Anyway, exchange of call signs between the ship and myself. Went ahead shooting. I made corrections to their fall of shot, and there was a problem. The ship had to come closer. Something was awfully wrong, and it turned out I was correcting the shot from the destroyer on the cruiser’s fall of shot.

>> Mm.

>> White phosphorus, Willy Peter, does this make sense to you?

>> Yes.

>> Anyway, about a year later on back in Australia, we had the Navy officers out to lunch, and their gunning officer said, “You’re an aviator,” and he said, “I’ve met the biggest idiot aviator in Korea.” That was me. Good story.

>> Did you tell him it was you?

>> Now, during the talks, truce talks, we were on the east coast at Hungnam, which is on down the east side. We normally operated on the west side. And the word went round the truce talks were almost going to happen, and we were given a code word, and the code word was Brandywine. And if we heard the code word … We were flying. Heard the code word Brandywine, stop bombing, rocketing, whatever you were doing because the truce had been declared. And the joke went around the squadron that if you had just dropped a bomb, you’d better duck down and grab it before it hit the ground. Joke. We need to worry because it was, what, 18 months, almost 2 years before we finally had a truce. Yeah. Now my reaction to being there? I could remember one time forming up, flying back from a bombing mission on my leader, and I suddenly had a thought, “What am I doing here 10,000 miles away from home bombing these people?” And that was it. I mean, anytime I ever thought about it … When you’re 21, it doesn’t matter, does it?

>> So have you thought about that question now?

>> No, doesn’t worry me.

>> Well, I’m glad you made it home safe.

>> I did, didn’t I? Obviously.

>> And you stayed in the service for a long time until you retired as a commodore.

>> Yeah, 33 years. I had commanded three ships …

>> Mm.

>> … which is good. So I was both an aviator and a seaman officer.

>> Since you were with the Navy for a very long time, what do you think the significance of Australia’s Navy was in Korea?

>> Then?

>> Mm-hmm.

>> Not that great really, the surface ships, I mean. The carrier, yes. We certainly … We did as good as what the Americans and everybody else was doing, including 77 Squadron. But the surface ships, all they could really do is gunfire ashore. It wasn’t a great effort. Well, I better clarify that. They were there from the beginning until the end. We rotated ships through in support as you would do, and some of them were pretty heavily involved, but not like the second World War.

>> Of course. The Second World War was a little different.

>> That’s a little different.

>> And so many more died, and it was …

>> Yeah.

>> It was a little more grander in scale, but it is true that the Korean War was a united effort of more different people from different continents, and I would think that Australians, coming from Oceania, as you said, 10,000 miles away and yet still participating in this war, you may have wondered why. But if you look back, it was really … You defended the freedom of South Korea.

>> Well, I think, looking back on it, we very much recognized the United Nations concept, and if the United Nations said we’ve got to go to war, we went to war, and it really was as simple as that. That’s my opinion. What do you think?

>> Yeah, I became very sympathetic to the South Koreans.

>> Yeah.

>> We’ll do his shortly, but yeah. I mean …

>> Since then, Australia has been involved in wars it should not have been involved in, right?

>> Mm-hmm.

>> The Korean War was a legitimate action. There’s no question about that to me.

>> Well, it stopped the threat of communism all over in that region.

>> So they say, and we’re led to believe.

>> You can tell for sure. I mean, there’s a stark difference between North and South Korea. You know what you fought for. It’s one country, I mean, one people, but the Allied helped South Korea and took down North Korea. I hope that you’re very proud.

>> Well, yeah. I’ve accepted that’s what we should have been doing, and that’s what we did, and you’re right. I’ll tell you a final funny. Do you want to hear a final funny?

>> Yes.

>> On the flight deck of the carrier, having started the aircraft, I couldn’t get my gun sight to work. No gun sight, and I fiddle with it, and I change the bulbs in it, and still no gun sight. And off I went, and we came across some Chinese, and all I could do was sort of point and spray, right? Right back on board the carrier, and I was sitting in a little cafe behind the island with my air group commander, the boss. There was a knock on the door, and a petty officer came in and said, “[INAUDIBLE] Lee, we’ve found out what’s wrong with your gun sight,” and I said, “Oh, good, what? Bad maintenance?” “No, no, no, no, sir. The brilliance was turned right down.” Good story? Naughty, naughty it was, too.

[ Chatter ]

>> My name is Denis Earp, Earp as in Wyatt Earp. I'm now 86 years old, but in 1950, when the Korean War broke out, I was still only 20, and I hadn't finished my flying training, but the government of South Africa asked for volunteers because for once, the United Nations was able to function as it should, by a pure accident of the Soviets having become angry at something or other, and so they didn't attend. Now at the time, the government decided that the best thing to do would be to send a fighter squadron. Having made some arrangements with the Americans so that we would pay for everything we used, all armament, fuel, aircraft, equipment, everything because all of us were volunteers, which I think makes it a little different story for many other countries. 1950, I spent in great tension following the progress of the Korean War down from the 38th Parallel down to the Pusan perimeter, the breakout at Imjin, the pursuit northwards because I was worried the war would be over before I could get there. I was a second lieutenant, as I said, still on flying training, and I didn't get my wings until December of 1950. Straight after that, Spitfire conversion and operational conversion, and then as soon as we could, we went to Korea, which I reached the end of May, 1951. Now it's a time long ago. Things are different now, but make no mistake. The Korean War was not a quarrel. It was a very big, very important, very violent war, and it made a point in stopping Soviet aggression because the manipulation of Korea was just a byproduct of the Cold War. China and Russia knew what was coming, and they were hoping to break the West's monopoly of resistance in the West. Strangely enough, I think it happened because an American foreign minister made a statement which the Chinese particularly misinterpreted. In an interview in, I think, the early '50s, he said which areas were vital for America, and he named them all over the West, but he did not mention Korea, so the Chinese and the North Koreans interpreted this as being a disengagement on the part of the United States, which it most definitely was not. But America was totally unprepared. When the Korean War broke out, South Korea was not ready for it. It was almost a miracle that the American logistics could reinforce the Pusan perimeter and mobilize allied forces quickly enough to stop having to retreat to Japan because then I think it would have been a very, very long war. In any case, as a second lieutenant, not a student of politics, just a young man, stupid as all young men are, I ended up in a very hot war. As a second lieutenant, my probability of surviving the first few combat missions were low, but you learn very quickly, or you don't survive, and quite a few of my friends were killed. Older and more experienced pilots were killed, and that's a bit of a shock to the system of a young man because you keep believing, "It cannot happen to me," but it does. And on my 65th combat mission, there was a Communist flat gunner who got lucky, and he shot me down, not immediately there, but I was able to fly for about 20 minutes, trying to get back to the lines, but I had a small fire in the cockpit. My feet were burning, and when I got to the point where I'd lost a lot of height, I knew I had to crash-land or bail out. Now the mountains in Korea are not conducive to safe forced landings, so I bailed, and I injured myself, and I had burned feet. I twisted my knee badly on landing, and 7 hours later, I was taken prisoner by the Chinese and then began a little more than 23 months of an experience which I wouldn't wish on anybody. To be a prisoner of the Communists is not a happy state of affairs, and I came very close to dying on several occasions, but by the grace of God, I didn't, and I was released after the armistice which was in July of 1953. I got out in August of '53 and was able to return home in reasonable shape, perhaps a little puzzled in my mind and a little troubled in my memories. So the war ended for me, but that war has not ended for Korea, and I think there's misery ahead for a long time. I hope it'll end peacefully, but I hope it'll still end in my lifetime, but it may not. >> Can you explain to us a little bit about your day-to-day experience at the POW camps? Because not a lot of people know what it means to be a prisoner of war. What did you eat? Were you able to wash yourself? Were you with other prisoners of war? How were the conditions like? How did you survive? >> Well, first of all, prisoners were not a common ... I beg your pardon. It's just my cell phone beeping. Prisoners were not at the moment very popular. They weren't prepared for them, neither the North Koreans nor the Chinese. Food, inadequate. No medical attention at all unless you were termed a progressive. If you offered any form of resistance or failed to cooperate, you were then classed as a reactionary, and the reactionaries didn't have a great future. So if in interrogation you resisted, remember that we'd been indoctrinated in the West to believe in the Geneva Convention. To the Chinese and the North Koreans, that was like a red flag to a bull, and immediately, if you pressed your point, you would end up in a hole in the ground, as I often did, tied with your elbows behind your back. Very little food. When it came, you ate like a dog, and your bodily functions were not catered for. You can imagine what that does to your morale after a few days but then if you're taken out and interrogation starts again or lessons. "You must study to learn the truth," was the big Communist message, and if you learn the truth, then you will have a happy daily life and we will take care of you. But if you didn't want to learn the truth and if you resisted, life was not pleasant. In the first winter at a place called [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] which was across on the Yalu River, a little way from the camp that I ended up in, about 1,500 men died, a lack of medicine, a lack of medication, a lack of food and extremely low temperatures, and the horror of that camp was that the ground was too hard to bury those who died, so they had to be laid on top of the ground and stacked until the spring came, and then they could be buried. Now that kind of environment doesn't do good for your ego. It's oppressive, and men sometimes cracked. They just couldn't take it anymore, and then they faced to the wall. Three days, they would die. We lightheartedly called it give-up-itis, but it was a serious problem. The mind definitely controls your body. If your mind says, "You've had enough. Die," you will die. If your mind says, "No. Let's stay with it. You've got a good chance of survival," and there was a lot of luck as an element. In the beginning as a prisoner, I was regularly interrogated, and we had to sit and listen to lectures every day. But later, I think particularly the Chinese realized that they were not getting anywhere, and they left us on our own. The North Koreans were particularly brutal captors. I spent a few weeks at an interrogation center outside of [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] which we called Park's Palace. Now Major Park was a very sadistic man, and he enjoyed torturing people, and torture might have been pleasant from his point of view, but it was not pleasant from the prisoner's point of view. But with a bit of luck, I survived Park's Palace. I survived a march from Pyongyang up to the Yalu River on foot and with prisoners who were not in good physical shape, and on that March, numerous prisoners died, again, bad physical condition, cold weather. The first snows came in. I was in a summer flying suit, and I got very cold, and I learned to my own horror that if I never saw snow again, pleasant as it may be to many people, I would not be sad at all. In brief, it was not a pleasant experience. I survived on the march when I got dysentery, and a friend of mine supported because if you got left behind, you knew that as soon as the group had moved along, there'd be a shot, and that would be the end. And my friend, Mikheli, physically helped me to survive the last few days until we got to [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. Unfortunately, he did at the cost of his own health because he was then diagnosed with a very, very poor heart, and after we got back to South Africa, a few months later, he died. So I owe him a life, but he gave his willingly. So that's, in brief, the story of a long time. >> You said General Park tortured. We don't understand what kind of torture you're talking. Can you explain what kind of torture? >> Well, if, for example, he wanted immediate information, such as if a prisoner had attempted to escape, then automatically, that meant it was a capitalist plot, and now you had to tell everything. Now one of the forms which was very unpleasant, they would tie you to a chair, kick the chair over backwards, put a cloth over your face and pour water on the cloth, which then sticks to your face, and you can't get breath. And after you've struggled a while, you lose consciousness, and when you come to, you're now sitting upright, coughing out water, and you get your breath back, and now we can do it all over again until you decide that you're going to give the information which they want. That was one form. Other forms were just direct beating. Some people were hung by their thumbs from a bin, and of course, they dislocated thumbs, dislocated shoulders, so physical torture is something that is not pleasant, and prisoners required a great deal of strength of character to endure and continue to resist. It didn't always help to lie because lies, as often do [INAUDIBLE]. So let's say that being put in a hole without food and water and tied up for a few days is also torture. Then that's not pleasant either. >> Were you able to wash yourselves? >> Not when you're in the hole. You had nothing. You mess yourself, and that does bad things to your morale. When you're not being interrogated or being punished, then you're with a group of prisoners who are all classed as reactionaries. In there, you had a reasonable chance of acting normally, bearing in mind that in a Communist system, there are always informers, and you don't know who they are, and the system works in this way that they ask the one informer what happened in that room on that morning, who said what, and he gives a report. Then they've got another informer who informer one doesn't know, and they ask him the same questions so the two informers can cross inform and get the truth. So you were never free to speak, even to your friends. If you wanted to speak, you would walk onto the open ground in front of the schoolhouse, which was prison, and there you could talk, but you had to be very careful because you could be turned in easily. >> Did they speak English? How did they interrogate you? >> Well ... >> Chinese or Korean ... >> Chinese ... >> They spoke English? >> Yeah. Some of them very good English. Some had been educated in universities in England and America. >> Okay. >> The Koreans also spoke very good English, and of course, there were always Russians that you knew were there because Russians smoked a cigarette which had a cardboard for the mouthpiece, so if you saw a couple of those lying on the ground, you knew Russians were giving the Chinese or the Koreans the questions to ask. >> And what kind of questions did they ask? >> Luckily, most of them were very stupid questions. Initially, they wanted to know, what squadron were you? Who was the squadron commander? Who was the second-in-command? How many men in your flight? How many airplanes? What kind of airplanes? How fast? How high? How many guns? How many bombs? How many rockets? Which are of no value except tactically, and after a few days, that interrogation has no further value except it builds up a pattern that the person being interrogated is going to answer, and I didn't realize that until right in the beginning. I had never been briefed [INAUDIBLE]. "What is your father's name?" I said, "That's got nothing to do with you." "Oh, you are not cooperating." "No, I'm not cooperating." "I'm sticking to the Geneva Convention." Then we get a long lecture on the lenient policy in which you not be killed, you will not be maltreated, provided you cooperate. Now on the question of my father's name, the guy was very polite about it. He said, "All right. If you won't answer, we will give you a little time to think about it," and they put me in a hole in the ground, and they tied me up, and they let me stay there for 2 days, and when I came out, the interrogator said, "Have you thought?" I said, "Yes, I've thought." He said, "And what is the answer? What is your father's name?" And I said, "I'm not going to tell you. It's got nothing to do with you." He said, "Come." He marched me up a hill with a squad of soldiers, stood me up against a tree. He didn't have the soldiers point a gun at me. He took out his pistol, and he cocked it, and he said, "Would you like a blindfold?" And I said, "No, thank you," and he aimed the pistol between my eyes, and he pulled the trigger, and it went click. I'll tell you, that's an incredible psychological letdown when you think you're going to die and you don't. So along that pattern, I realized, if there's a question, you've got to have an answer. Whether it's a lie or not is immaterial, but you will answer, and that's how interrogation builds up. Always the small questions first and then later the political questions, and that's what they were interested in, but we were not politicians. We were professional soldiers, second lieutenants who knew very little about a lot of things, but we survived. >> So did you eventually give your father's name? >> I gave my father's name. >> I think I heard that some of your worst torturers were women. Tell me about that. >> No, I never had women torturers. There were women nurses that we saw in the hospitals, but we never got to a hospital because we were reactionaries. >> And about lice. >> Lice? >> Dealing with lice because you weren't showering. >> Well, lice is something I'd never had in my life, but after being along on a march and stop at a village, they put you in a room. The next morning, you itch, and the itch gets worse, and then somebody says, "The reason you're itching is you've got lice," so if you've got a spare minute, get into your clothes, find the lice and kill them. It makes you feel better, and you can imagine if you're tied up, the torture of having lice all over you. For somebody who's not used to it, maybe for the locals it didn't matter, but for me, it meant a lot. >> And some prisoners had to eat lice to survive, I heard. >> Well, you ate whatever you could. If you could take something clean off the side of the road in the summer, eat it because your food was essentially two bowls, small bowls, of rice per day, but on that you actually suffering from avitaminosis, beriberi, eye night blindness, illness for which you could be given medicine if you were not a reactionary. >> And in the camp, were you mixed with other nationalities? >> Yes, mainly Americans, but in the camp I was in, there were some Turks. There were Filipinos, the South Africans, and I'm trying to think who else. My memory is not as good as it should be, possibly because I don't think back to those days with any great pleasure. >> Were you mixed? >> Yes. >> Or were you segregated? >> Mixed. >> Mixed. >> Interrogation, solitary, only by yourself. >> I hope many survived like you did. >> South Africans, eight. >> Out of how many prisoners of war? >> Eight. >> There were eight prisoners of war, but they all survived? >> South Africans, yes. >> [INAUDIBLE]. >> The last man was shot down 3 days before armistice, and he was perhaps the luckiest guy ever because he lost 40 pounds in weight in 40 days, and he was never seriously interrogated. >> On armistice, which was July 27th, 1953, you were released? >> Not then. We got released much later. I had made a mistake early on when I was a prisoner. They said, "You are an officer." I said, "Yeah, second lieutenant, very senior." They said, "You must know many things about what bombs do." I said, "I suppose so." They said, "Well, we are subject to unwarranted attacks by the Americans and the Wall Street warmongers, so you will now show us how to build a bombproof bomb shelter." I said, "Okay." So I explained to them how I thought a bomb shelter should be built quite incorrectly, but I then was the foreman, and the Chinese built according to my directions, and we'd almost finished when we were attacked by fighters from my wing, and the bomb shelters collapsed, as I knew they would, but when I was in the bomb shelter, I stuck close to the wall. The guard went in deep and when the shelter collapsed broke his back and killed him. So then I spent a very unpleasant few days being beaten up, and after that, I built the bomb shelters, and our whole platoon of Chinese, they were the supervisors. And because of that, I was tried by a Chinese court. I was given a defense lawyer who pleaded for the death penalty, and he got it. They sentenced me to death for sabotage, but then they said they would not execute the sentence yet, but every time I went for interrogation after that, they'd remind me, and that's why I didn't get released too quickly after armistice, and I didn't know if they would release me until the very end. So I got released in the end of August. >> One month later. >> Mm-hmm. >> But did you know that there was an armistice signed? >> I knew there was an armistice. >> How were you informed about it? >> Well, first of all, we notice stoppage of air flights, the first thing. Then we noticed the Chinese were not quite so hostile. Within 2 days, they formed us up on the playground, and we knew they were going to announce armistice, and we as prisoners said, "Don't show any emotion." So the Chinese commander got up and spoke in Chinese, and then it gets translated into English, and nobody moved. The Chinese commander got very angry and yelled at the interpreter and said, "Did you tell them?" And he said, "Yes," and he told us again, and nobody moved, and this puzzled the Chinese no end. They couldn't understand it, and it gave us a great deal of satisfaction. >> So you all planned this. >> We planned it. >> Wow. All different nationalities, you all just remained calm. >> And that included the people we knew were informers and traitors because they knew we'd tear them to pieces if they didn't. >> Did they come back? Did they return? >> I believe quite a few of them faced court marshals in the States, at any rate. Sad, but that's how people are. You look after yourself. >> [INAUDIBLE]. >> When you're starving, you can bribe a man very easily with a bowl of very inferior food or maybe some medicine for serious illnesses. >> Oh, show your hands. It breaks my heart. >> We're not sure what caused that, but it damaged the skin, and I think that was because at one stage in the winter when it was very, very cold, they would stand me outside and tie me to a pole with no cover for my hands, and they'd wait just until the frostbite started, and then they would take me into a warm room. Now I don't know if you've ever had frostbite, but when it thaws, it is extremely painful, and this was a very easy way that didn't threaten my life but softened me. You tend to become less resistant when you're treated that way. In any case, I survived those days, and I came back, and I managed to survive another war which lasted 20 years, and in the end, I ended up as the chief of the Air Force, so I couldn't really complain about my career. >> A general. >> From second lieutenant to a general. >> But most of all, that's just so fascinating because most people ... You didn't just go fight and return, but you suffered for almost 2 years as a prisoner, like you said, with your morale, usurping the dignity out of the human being. Most people would want nothing to do with any war, period, so why did you decide to stay in the military in the force? >> Well, I found that I'd enjoyed my part of the war. I didn't like the part being a prisoner, but by accident of circumstances, I had several flight commanders shut down, and there were no replacements, so they made me as a second lieutenant an acting flight commander, and I found I had an aptitude for leading a flight in combat and achieving great success in attacks on ground targets. So when I came back, I had a choice. I could leave, or I could stay, but at that stage, things were reasonably peaceful, and my option would have been to go to airways and fly as an airline pilot, but my nature was not of that ilk. It wouldn't have worked for me, so I stayed, and it wasn't long in this troubled country that we were in conflict again. So I found I had a natural aptitude for military operations, and that's why I stayed. >> And you said you went back to Korea. Could you just briefly explain your first impression? >> 1986, I in fact went on an official visit to Taiwan, and while we were there, we contacted Mr. [INAUDIBLE] who was the then Korean minister of, I think, prisoner affairs, and he said, "Well, why don't you come and visit? Officially, we cannot admit you." They had just at that time refused entry to our minister of defense and our minister of foreign affairs, but in my case, they decided I should go. They treated me like a king. We'd be riding in an elevator up to that very tall building in Seoul 65 floors high, and Mr. [INAUDIBLE] would say to the people, "This man here is a veteran of the Korean War," and they would all smile and come and want to shake my hand, and then he said, "And he was shot down and was a prisoner for 2 years," and then they all wanted to hug me. That's how they were. They were just grateful to see a veteran of the Korean War. They treated me like royalty. The Air Force invited me to a dinner. I was able to lay a wreath at a memorial for the Cluster Regiment on the Imjin River, and as I said, it was a wonderful experience to see the Korea which was devastated rebuilt. And it's interesting. People ask me, "You go to a Korean War, and you didn't even win. What did you achieve?" I say, "Well, let's look at this way. North Korea is the most repressive Stalinist country in the world where there is no freedom, great human rights violations and terrible abuses of people. South Korea is the most progressive open society that you can imagine, and you say we didn't win? I think we did." >> I think so too. >> Good. >> Actually, I know so because I'm here. >> All right. But remember, I was talking then in 1986. I know things have changed a bit now, but South Korea is still prospering. I think your economy is about third or fourth in the world, and I'm glad. >> Well, I hope you're very proud. >> Thank you. >> Thank you.

[FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> My name is Vladimir Polage Arsenio. I was born in 1938, and I was born in a big, huge family. There were 11 children in our family. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> My high gradation of high education, I came to Moscow to complete ... to continue my education. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> When I entered college, I studied for 3 years. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> And I had ... After graduation of college, I had to go to army to serve for the army. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> I had a duty to go to army without any exceptions, and I was a 4th-year student at that time. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> In '50s, 25th of July, there was a broke up in war at that time. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> And the Soviet Union, the government of Soviet Union ... [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> ... didn't support, didn't want to support so much, so as we didn't have enough resources to support that situation. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> After the army, I was ... I went to veterans service, special college for special technique, space kind of aircrafts, special. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> We started equipment, military equipment, which would were not used yet because that was brand-new technologies. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> After mutual agreement between North Korea and Soviet Union, there was no agreement for support, mutual support, but Kim Il-sung, he insisted Soviet Union to support in that war, in Korean War. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> Stalin was the request of Mao Zedong and Kim Il-sung ... [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> ... by request made a decision to support North Korea ... [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> ... through a nation and special rated technical equipment with a lot of special military equipment. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> In the beginning, Stalin thought that we will just give an equipment and not people, just give equipment, but people were not supposed to be involved in the war. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> But when Koreans got that equipment, weapons, they couldn't work because that equipment was special on the radioactive airplanes, special. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> The speed was really high speed. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> And the [INAUDIBLE] radioactive technical equipment, it was not ... they were ... They couldn't have a ... They couldn't be involved in the war due to lack of knowledge, how to use that equipment. They couldn't fight with ... in the war. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> So the Soviet Union made a decision ... [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> ... to give people and the technology and the equipment ... [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> ... the airplanes, pilots and [INAUDIBLE] all specialists who were involved who were high specialist to use who knew how to use those equipment and those high technology weapons. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> There was a special ... They were created a special conference, which involved a lot of high ... a lot of group of ... Different group of, so to say, military, military as a group and a lot of high generals and, so to say, highly specialists, highly qualified specialists. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> I can say begin ... to begin to shoot first, but ... [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> ... Americans helped South Korea a lot. They supported. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> The purpose was to take over North Korea. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> Then in the beginning, the North Korean army crossed ... [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> ... the border, and there were no any agreements. There were no any mutual discussions at that time. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> [INAUDIBLE] in South Korea, and they were planning to use military methods to solve this issue. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> Due to military political situation, happened that way. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> We didn't want that North Korean could be under South Korea, could be taken over by South Korea, we didn't want, so this kind of actions already they were taken by the commander of chiefs ... [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> ... of all unified army by Douglas MacArthur. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> He wanted to use the [INAUDIBLE] to ... [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> ... until they used the atomic weapon. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> The government [INAUDIBLE] stopped him ... [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> ... and thought it will be a third World War, World War III, so Truman liberated the US MacArthur to ask him not to be a Commander of Chief over the American Army. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> And the 38th parallel ... [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> ... the border between South and North Korea ... [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> ... in the end of war in 1951 ... [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> ... due to people came to realization that North and South, neither North nor South Korea won't be able to be winners in this. Nobody will be a winner. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> So they decided to go into negotiation, and this negotiations were in effect until ... And prolonged until 27th of July of '51, 1951. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> Everyone understood that from the ... [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> ... Soviet Union was behind the North Korea, and South Korea was supported by the United States of America, and understood that two super countries were involved in this war, and everyone understood that. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> [INAUDIBLE] result, so ... [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> ... my involvement into the war, I was the main specialist on the radioactive weapons ... [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> ... stations. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> That's radioactive stations were used for the first time in history in Korean War. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> I was a specialist to provide on those radioactive stations, and they were included special batteries inside those stations. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> There were three batteries, and in the division there are three groups of soldiers so in every [INAUDIBLE] ... [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> ... there were three stations. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> So there were eight guns, special guns, but they have are very powerful. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> My task was to provide security for the area which we're protecting, so the North Korea. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> There were special [INAUDIBLE] for far vision to recognize the enemy from the far aside. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> And those stations, when they recognize the enemies coming from the south [INAUDIBLE] and American weapons and ammunitions were very strong. B-29 probably you might know, and the special airplanes, using the airplanes the [INAUDIBLE] F-86 if you have known. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> So that kind of military special aviation is ... And that special station recognizes from far away distance, and you saw the information through the radiation station, weapon station. When they get these information details, call the ... [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> They provide special indicators, special, so to say, indicators, and their location. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> When they arrived to get the purpose to go there to realize their purpose. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> The station ... [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> ... radiation station that recognizes them, it has already their coordinates, their, so to say, [INAUDIBLE]. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> So we had a special also another equipment that could really calculate special, so to say, calculate their speed and whatever that they can make the ... meet in the air to, so to say, fight. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> But this kind of lesson is not the only one. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> The special task of that military group is prevent and protect, not let this enemy's aviation to bomb, to be able to bomb ... [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> ... prevent from the bombing. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> So there was a second method to ... of the protection. That is fire. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> All weapons were constructed in a space ... [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> ... and all the weapons shoot that special space, and the pilots see that hurting, and he make decision to break, and then the enemy's airplane would be destroyed absolutely ... [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> ... no way to survive. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> So when they saw that special kind of equipment, they just turned around and went back. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> They bombed different area, not the area that they wanted ... that they had in their original purpose to do. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> So this kind of war we had of that special group of high technology weapon ... [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> ... my task was to provide that all these mechanisms, all these weapons could really work absolutely, 100 percent perfectly. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> Next, as for aviation ... [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> ... when the enemy's aviation came out, then our pilots also flew on the sky. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> They just go to meet them. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> And there is a air war. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> This is the masses of pilots shooting really highly and Russian airplanes were in Korea, MiG-15. Yeah, the ... [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> On American side ... [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> ... F-86, the system Sabre. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> Air war, you can imagine that what it is like. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> As a matter of fact, the one who is leading or who is follower, leader and the follower, they are like one pair. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> It used to be ... That kind of tactic is used to be not just in Soviet military system, but also Americans used that method too. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> The task is ... [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> ... of the follower, the task of the follower is to be involved with the fight, but the leader shoot, protect ... [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> ... his tail, so to say, that Americans wouldn't be able to shoot and to hit, to shoot the air. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> So what do the special [INAUDIBLE] ... [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> ... weapons [INAUDIBLE] was Americans decided that they lost the war, and half of them leave. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> Our pilots come back to their airports. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> When they were landed, American airplanes came suddenly, unexpectedly came out from somewhere. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> And when the pilot already lost his everything, lost his control because it's unexpected situations, so, of course, in this case, usually American pilots, they hit, and they shoot, and the Soviets, Russians, they drive off course. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> And for this, there were special guns. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> When they see our airplane come to land, and those [INAUDIBLE] special weapon shoot that American airplane, and it just ... [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> They shoot, so in this ... From this perspective, that landing weapon specialist, they were very successful and very helpful from that perspective. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> So this manner of war happened every day, so I've been involved with this work for 6 months, 6 months, no rest, only war, 6 months. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> What was the danger time. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> When that landing special equipment working to prevent from the enemy's airplanes ... [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> ... it was a danger. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> We shoot our own soldiers due to the small pieces of weapons they coming back, so there is a danger like that. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> So this way ... [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> ... there was ... had happened the war. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> First time in the history, air war ... [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> ... was used. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> Air war was used in Korean War ... [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> ... for the first time. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> The main military weapons highly technology ... [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> ... were used. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> From night to night, they began to use them, which there were pilots fighting whenever support special landing military highly equipment supported a lot that pilot to protect them. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> So after all the fighting, the battles, in 1953, on July 27th, the Armistice Agreement was signed. Can you explain a little bit about what he remembers about the armistice? [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> When made a decision to stop, they fired ... [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> ... part of a mission. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> We were on the Chinese territory and the other part of the Korean territory. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> We were on the Korean territory. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> And our main task was to protect and object of the state of military manner. That was the breach from the [INAUDIBLE]. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> That was [INAUDIBLE] from ... when from China came weapons and products. All this came from China to the Soviet Union. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> So Americans knew about the value of this breach, and they tried to do everything to destroy it. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> The second object that was protected by the North that the stations, that the [INAUDIBLE] was on the Yauza River, provided a northeast part of China, part of Manchuria that was stationed very valuable ... [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> ... important, and American military offices, generals, they really understood the importance of that object as well. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> The third task for the aviation to provide ... [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> ... transportation inside the territory, so the soldiers couldn't wear, couldn't carry the weapons in their pockets, so there should be ... They're supposed to fly it and protect ... fly the weapons, special weapon soldiers ... [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> ... through the river and through the land. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> It was also another task for their aviation and sent special land soldiers group. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> And when they came to agreement on 27th of July in Panmunjom ... [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> ... you've heard about it. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> From the North Korea and South Korea and from the American ... [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> ... nobody ... Not everyone signed this agreement, not everyone. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> But still, the kind of stopping ... to stop war to make some peace. Actually, it began to act. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> It was considered, this period of time political powers as well as the leaders of other states would ... [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> ... would begin more deep work on agreement for a long, long time to make peace. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> But it didn't happen. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> So as a matter of fact, we have 64 years now, 64 years we live no war, no peace. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> And there is [INAUDIBLE]. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> There is no [INAUDIBLE]. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> But the next leaders who came after these leaders, they still did not came to agreement. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> So my personal opinion is in my opinion from the political point of view the coalition in South Korea or in the North Korea, but according to the territory, the [INAUDIBLE] is the same so this is nonreason ... [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> ... another one that life in South Korea ... [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> ... is more high in terms of welfare and the prosperity. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> And everyone wants to unite, but everyone has [INAUDIBLE] ... [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> The South ... No one wants to unite based upon the socialism, but South wants to unite based upon ... democracy, exactly, right. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> So ... [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> And [INAUDIBLE] that we don't have this agreement still now, and the result of this war are [INAUDIBLE]. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> Over 9 million people died in this war. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> And two third part of them is local people. >> The Koreans. >> Inhabitants, the civil people. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> I can say that Americans and South Korea, they lost over 500,000 people. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> Chinese, China were 1 million people. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> UN, 500,000 people. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> Soviet Union also lost approximately 300,000, 220 pilots and others, the special soldiers who were controlling that equipment from the land. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> A lot of airplanes were shot for all kind of different kind of airplane, the 86, the 89 [INAUDIBLE], 86, all different type of airplane. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> One thousand two hundred airplanes were shot in that war. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> And that special land support soldiers, they shot 200 airplanes. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> So we had 305 people, yeah? [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> And from the landing, approximately 70 people, those who were providing with the special equipment from the land soldiers, the specialists, greater technical specialists. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> So this is the result of the war, and nothing about the economical loss from the economical perspective. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> We can say that in the beginning that this is a civil war between South and North, but actually it became the political powers also were involved. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> Now I can answer all your questions. >> What ... [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> If I didn't say something, so you're welcome to ask them. >> So the war hasn't ended. Do you think ... Do you have hope that it could end in the future and there will be peace be two Koreas? [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> It's hard to say at the moment. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> I have a hope that it can be, but so I thought in many international conferences and congresses. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> But I can make [INAUDIBLE] for the nearest future to come to agreement for the South and for the North Koreans it's quite difficult unfortunately. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> Have you visited either North or South Korea? [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> I've been to Seoul in South Korea at the International Conference. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> It was dedicated to world peace, and one issue was about the unification of North and South Korea, and I spoke in my report on this special conference. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> And I tried ... I insisted to state, the leaders of the states of the South and North Korea listen to their people and make a decision to unite. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> After my speech in that conference ... [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> I got ... I received an international diploma as an ambassador for peace, very big, very beautiful one. >> Thank you because I ... [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> ... because the more people like him advocate for peace, maybe the leaders will listen. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> I don't give up on the theme about Korea still. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> I have a lot of articles that are devoted to problem of Korea, Korean War, so I give you as a gift the copy of my articles. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> Maybe I couldn't [INAUDIBLE] ... [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> So you can find in my articles full answers. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> One more important moment I want to say, once ... [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> From one Korean professor from Korean university, I was ... came to my home. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> So we were talking just like [INAUDIBLE]. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> He took pictures. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> He took all materials, everything I had at home about Korea, and he said, he promised that they will write article with ... use my opinion and so on and so forth, so where are they? [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> They didn't give any contact to me, and I don't know who did I talk to. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> They give me some business cards. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> I have their contact, but nothing happened after that. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> No ... There is no contact with them, no connections unfortunately. >> I will keep in touch with him. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> Why does he care ... Ask him, why do you care so much about Korea? Does his friends and comrades care about Korea too? [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> Because Korean War was the worst bloodless, bloody war, a lot of blood. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> I saw a lot of blood, a lot of tears, a lot of fire. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> And all these disasters, I experienced all these things, and I'm against any war, and I don't ... I can't agree with kind of disagreement that's going on, the kind of fake agreements that exist between these two countries. I can't agree with that. I want to finish that, want to make it peace. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> And now I am as an ambassador of peace, I really provide that peace policy among youngsters at the moment. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> I am very mad about this Korea that's going on now and a lot of people dying, and we can't do nothing. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> All the time that no man would have conflicts, so war is going on. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> Usually, all wars, they end with a certain agreement, certain document. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> And all issues were discussed at the table during the negotiation between two or few countries. Usually this is the way supposed to be after the end of the war. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> Here is pictures where the conference were dedicated the unification for the Korea, unification between Korea, South and North Korea. That's conferences were dedicated to Korea issue, especially unification, so ... >> Can he explain a little bit about his medals. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> This is professor [INAUDIBLE]. He's a professor. He gave me this business card. He is a professor in Seoul. He took a lot of materials from me. >> When? [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> This is Dr. Bohim Pak. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> This is Dr. Bohim Pak. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> Two years ago. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> Two years ago. >> Explain to me a little bit about your medals. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> These two medals the Chinese, that's from China. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> We had an agreement with China, an agreement about mutual support, but Korea, though we had an agreement, they didn't give us any medals. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> I don't have any medals from Korea. That's why. >> From the North. >> From North Korea, yeah. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> But I really fought really earnestly with all of my heart for the freedom of Korea and Korean people. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> As for the other medals, are from the World War II, and after the war, I finished. I graduated the Moscow Engineering Institute. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> I work in the naval, military naval. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> I was a main specialist to provide assistance ... [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> ... for ... to protect humans' in enclosed space. >> I have another question. Do other veterans of the Korean War in Russia share his views and his hope for unified Korea? [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> Have a section of veterans of Korean War. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> The head of this section is the general Karovich. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> He's a Hero of the Soviet Union. Did you hear his name? >> The Heroes Club. >> The Hero, the club, yes. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> I was a member of that club. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> I tried to get any memories from other scholars, with other veterans [INAUDIBLE] successful as people lost their memories, and now over 90 years old, and most of them can't walk. They are lying in bed. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> And when I was working in the interest of Navy interest, military, naval ... [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> [INAUDIBLE] I got PhD on technical sciences on that issue. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> And I successfully worked on that kind of system, on using that system, developing that system? [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> So atomic submarine is able to be 24 hours underground safe instead of 1 or 2 hours. >> One more question. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> Today, we went to the memorial. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> I saw World War ... [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> I saw World War I memorial, two World War II memorial ... [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> So here he said that after he has finished his work, some of his comrades, but they are from naval comrades, they gave him that kind of a letter of gratitude, and he would like to give it to you too because they have written here some information about him and about his work and about everything. >> Yes, going back to the memorial, I visited World War I memorial, World War II memorial, the UN memorial and the International Soldier Memorial. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> And I was ... [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> I go very often there to that memorial all the time. >> Me too, in Washington, DC, I go to the memorial all the time. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> He wants to continue about medals. >> Oh, oh. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> He has five medals from military naval. >> Oh. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> And very universals medals, which were dedicated to generals, Admiral Gorshkov and specialty top leaders, top commanders in chief from the military. They're from World War II, so ... [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> In general, he has 22 medals from the government and from the different state medals ... [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> ... and more than over 10. He has special appreciations signs like medals, some kind of medals and as a type of medal. They're high enough level of appreciation medal, special medals, and there are ordinary medals. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> I'm an honored inhabitant of Moscow City. >> I'm honored to meet you. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> So going back to the memorial ... [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> ... in the United Nations memorial, I saw four statutes, one Soviet soldier, Russian soldier, American soldier, British soldier and French soldier against Hitler. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> So I was very sad ... [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> ... because 5 years later in the Korean War, the people that fought together in World War II had to fight against one another. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> That is war. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> I hope that ... [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> ... this war will end, Korean War will end, and there will be peace, and there will be reconciliation and that ... I call all the veterans my grandpas. I call all the veterans of the Korean War my grandpas. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> I hope ... [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> ... that my American grandpas and he be friends. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> We are good friends. Please, look. >> Because he was a general, right? [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> General. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> Yes. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> Please, look at his hands. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> Look at his hands. >> So I would like to call him my grandpa too ... [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> Yes, you are welcome, please. >> ... because we are fighting for peace together in Korea. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> That's right, very good. Yes. >> I'm going to go and hug him. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> I want to say a few words. >> Oh, okay. >> May I say a few more words, please? [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> We old generation, we made a lot of things. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> We fought against a system. We won, and I hope that giving our, sharing our traditions, Russian and American friendship, people, youngsters, please, take charge in your hands and do everything to stop war, to finish all wars all over the world. This is what I teach, youngsters. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> Thank you. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> Thank you.