– Me llamo José Vidal Beltrán Molano. Mi grado en el Ejército: cabo primero. Formo parte de la Junta Directiva de ASCOE por el cargo de vocal. Quiero hacer un recuento de mi vida antes de ir a Corea. Trabajaba aquí, en este palacio, palacio presidencial, trabajé cinco años. Aquí estaba trabajando antes de ir a Corea voluntariamente a luchar por la democracia y la libertad de Corea del Sur. Me siento orgulloso de haber pertenecido a ese ejército libertador en su país, a ese grupo que fuimos a luchar por la libertad, por la democracia de Corea, de un pueblo oprimido en aquella ocasión. Yo permanecí 15 meses en Corea. Mi comandante fue, con mi, en esa época, coronel Ruiz Novoa, quien falleció en días pasados, hoy general de la República. Mi experiencia allí en Corea fue bastante difícil porque, por el idioma, por las costumbres. Para mí era un país desconocido, gente desconocida, pero gente amable, gente muy querida por la cual luchamos hasta donde fue posible. De mi regreso a Colombia tengo la experiencia de haber sido recibido aquí, en mi país, con honores. Después, formé una familia. Tengo ocho hijos, todos profesionales, un militar, el menor de mi familia, de mis hijos, coronel de la Fuerza Aérea Colombiana. Hemos recibido en la Embajada de Corea, he recibido muchas atenciones, muchos agasajos, beneficios para mis, para mis nietos en cuanto a educación. Y he encontrado mucho apoyo en todos los casos en los cuales hemos tenido que ver mucho con la colonia de Corea. Cualquier pregunta que quiera hacerme, con mucho gusto.
– ¿Qué piensa de que, de Corea y coreanos y el futuro de Corea? Porque la guerra no termina.
– No la, no la escucho, no la entiendo.
– ¿Visitas, visita a Corea?
– Ah, sí, hace dos años estuve por una invitación del presidente de Corea, estuve visitando Corea después de 60 años de haber estado allá en la guerra. Fui muy bien atendido, muy bien recibido. Nos recibieron, fui en compañía de cuatro compañeros más. Fuimos recibidos como héroes. Nos atendieron muy bien. Corea, especialmente Seúl, ha cambiado muchísimo de la época en que estuvimos en la guerra a como se encuentra ahora. Corea se ha desarrollado muchísimo, ha progresado, y me alegra muchísimo que Corea en este momento sea uno de las potencias económicas del mundo, y que su gente maravillosa todavía nos recuerda después de más de 60 años, nos recuerda con cariño y con gratitud. Y todavía en esta fecha nos están dando las gracias por el sacrificio que hicimos por el pueblo de Corea del Sur.

>> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> My name is Ibrahim Gulek. >> Ibrahim Gulek [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> I went to South Korea in [INAUDIBLE]. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> It took us 23 days to go to Korea with ship. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> First when we went, we were the [INAUDIBLE]. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> When we first landed in Pusan port, we were exhausted for the long trip, and they let us rest for 2 days. Then we had to go to the war zone right after with a train. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> We were going with a train, but the railroads were a little broken, and that caused the ride to be really slow because we couldn't go fast because of the railroads. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> And when he first saw the Korean kids, he was surprised because they didn't have any clothes during the winter, and he thought the kids were able to withstand the cold because that was the first time they saw kids wearing basically nothing in this cold weather. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> There was food, Turkish bread and meat in the middle. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> He would basically give the food, and they would all try to take the food, basically, and they would take the food from someone else's mouth. That was how the situation was. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> And when they saw this, they didn't think about their own deaths at all. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> When we first reached the war zone, we had to dig our own cover ourselves. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> All our hands were all destroyed and bruised because of digging a lot. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> We were walking around underground. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> And the gun was 7.5 kilograms that we were carrying everywhere with us. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> I could not shoot anywhere. It was a long-range rifle, and I had seven targets that I had to hit. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> And his lieutenant told him to shoot a specific target, but he had 200 bullets in his gun, in his rifle, and he would keep shooting at the area, but he could not see anything because of the dark. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> And when he shoots a lot of bullets, the rifle gets really hot, and he has to change rifle as well. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> And he constantly changed those rifles and put one of them underground in order to cool down. Then every night, he would spend around 1,500 bullets shooting at those targets. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> And he went [INAUDIBLE] basically, and he would shoot at those areas, but he told his lieutenant that he could not see anything. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> And the lieutenant told him that tomorrow morning, you'll see what you were shooting at. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> And it's nighttime, and he went to the lieutenant, and he was sleeping in his bed. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> The lieutenant in the night, he went to his lieutenant, and ... >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> ... he took the binoculars. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> He looked through the binoculars to see what he was shooting at. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> And when he looked through the binoculars, he saw a huge hill, but when he looked closely, he realized that it was all corpses, actually, human bodies that were put together up there. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> Every district or area unit had one phone [INAUDIBLE]. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> It was for them shooting the crossfire so that the enemy could not dodge or go towards one area. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> And also, they would shoot in a crossfire [INAUDIBLE] bombed area, and he would see the trees that were full of holes, basically. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> And the [INAUDIBLE] were actually good in every way. He's seen that. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> And in the medallion ceremony where they had their pulling rope game, he was part of that as well against the US military. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> Basically, it was 10 US soldiers and 10 Turkish veterans, and there was water in the middle, and they were playing who would pull the other side to the water. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> So the Turkish soldiers dug in the ground with ... >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> So their tactic was, they know that US soldiers were bigger and larger and stronger than them, so they basically at least threw up a little bit, and once they were losing their balance, they would pull in that time, and they won the pulling game with that tactic. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> In the war ... >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> [INAUDIBLE] basically they were English soldiers a lot, but they were hiding in the bushes to try to pull it back, but the Turkish soldiers would just charge in even though they did not fear anything, and he forced himself to go straight in the line and under pushes that that's why the Turkish soldiers won that small battle in the area. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> And in the medal ... >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> ... for every Turkish soldier, a US soldier would accommodate that person and buy food and take him around, and a high-ranking officer was chosen for him. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> [INAUDIBLE] after I went back to ... >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> Back in those days ... >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> ... they would exchange mail. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> Ask him about Korea. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> And he's talking about the time when they were in the forest, and there were a lot of Korean citizens as well because they could not live in those houses because of the bombing and attack, and a lot of Turkish soldiers would take their food and everything and give it to the Korean citizens who were living in those forests with them. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> But the US soldiers thought that we were selling the food to the Korean citizens ... >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> ... and asked whether we had money or not from all the food that we gave. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> The soldiers thought that the Turkish soldiers were selling because they did not think that they would give their own everything to the Korean citizens, and that's why US citizens were suspicious of Turkish soldiers, but once they realized and asked the Korean citizens that they had no money or anything, they just gave the food for free to the Korean citizens, they thought that the Turkish soldiers were kind of stupid because they were going to be weaker, and they left without finding anything. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> The Koreans loved us a lot, and it feels like we're blood brothers, basically. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> They went back to Korea in 1999. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> And when they landed, they were going to go see the places they fought at. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> And they turned those houses into museums, and he was going towards those area with other veterans as well. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> And the graveyards. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> And there were 165 ... >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> [INAUDIBLE]. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> And he's talking about ... >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> ... when he was in a tank in the war. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> He's talking about when he went back to the graveyards of the other people who died. He saw one of his friends who died in a tent when they were together, and there was a bullet shrapnel that fell from the top, and one went towards his friend, so his friend died, and he saw his grave when he went back, and he cried when he saw that. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> He was a really good person that passed away, his friend. >> Is he buried in the United Nations Pusan Cemetery? >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> Tell him, "What is his name?" >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> Sebatin. >> Sebatin. >> Sebatin. His last name? >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> Tell him, when I go to the United Nations Pusan Cemetery, I'll visit him too. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> He is actually not in the [INAUDIBLE]. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> He prayed to Allah in that graveyard. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> People were wondering why would he do it, but he said, "I don't care. I want to pray." >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> And he sees himself online where he's praying in the graveyard for the ... >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> Basically, he's seen on the Internet that he went back after 60 years and saw his friends, and he prayed for God.

>> My name is Constansion, Jerinof Constansion. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> Okay. So it's a great honor for me to see our guest, Ms. Hannah, and I'm very glad that she came here to Moscow because she's doing the same work that I'm doing here in Russia. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> So I started my project in 2009. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> That was the 60-years anniversary of the beginning of the Korean War. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> In the USA, the Korean War is called the forgotten war. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> And in Russia just as well. Nobody knows anything about it. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> So even children and grandchildren of the people who participated in the Korean War do not know that their dad or their granddad participated in this war, or maybe they know something, but they do not know any details. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> And the reason was that every veteran of the Korean War signed a document where he promised not to disclose state secret. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> Not many people participated in that war if we compare the number of participants with the number of those who participated in future wars of the Soviet Union, and that's why the public didn't get really interested in that war. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> And another reason is that our ally that is North Korea also didn't like to speak about the role of the Soviet Union in that war. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> That's why in 2009, I decided to make a project that would make this information more public. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> So it happens so that at that time, the veterans of the Korean War decided to establish their own museum, and I offered them my help as a designer. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> So that is the way I started the public project, and also I established a special Internet site where I was thinking about different events of the Korean War. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> That became known, and in February 2010, I was offered to prepare special edition of this magazine that was almost completely devoted to the Korean War. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> So in this magazine, you can find my program statements, so my ideas, my actions, and also have I've put in different specialist, paleontologists and historians. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> And after that, I started doing other things, things devoted to different memorials for this war and also in the territory of North Korea. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> And now I want a monument to be made in the territory of North Korea, and if the authorities allow me to do it, then I'm going to collect funds for this monument. This monument will be established at the place of death of our soldiers. [ Chatter ] >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. This photograph, [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> It's not me. It's Kim Ursan with the veterans. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> And I think that in this photo, there are only two veterans of the Korean War: this one and this one. This is General Komerenka. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> And this is Yevgeny Pepelyaev, one of the best pilots of the Korean War. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> And this magazine was prepared to the anniversary of the finish of the Korean War. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> Here, there is an interview of the veteran who is going to come tomorrow. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> So I invited him to come to South Korea, and after that, he was called a traitor, and no one wanted to talk to him. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> So he's a pioneer for the united Korea. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> He doesn't share many of radical views to the Korean War, and that's why he's such an interesting person. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> He also think that a united Korea is inevitable.

>> Okay. My name is [INAUDIBLE]. I’m a retiree of the Marine Corps, served 20 [INAUDIBLE] years, and we are [INAUDIBLE] specifically by my uncle [INAUDIBLE]. He was a war veteran of the Korean War, and in the ’50s, early, ’50s, he was in Korea, and he got wounded in Korean War. And he served, I don’t know how long, how many times, but after that time, then he joined the [INAUDIBLE] Marines actually in that time after. Then he got discharged around early ’60s or somewhere around there, and he just passed away about 7 or 8 years ago, and most of the time, I heard him, he was talking about some metal stick in his leg, got wounded in Vietnam … I mean, in Korea, and he always talk about he got wounded in the snow, in the time of the snow, cold weather training, or cold weather. He got wounded in Korea in that war, and he’s a super guy to me, great uncle, and he shared his thought and the time of his service, and I’m proud to be his nephew. And that’s all I can remember and I know about him.

>> How old was he when he joined?

>> I believe when he joined, he was probably 19 or 20 years old.

>> Aw. When is his birthday, do you know?

>> Oh, I don’t know. His birthday is around 1937.

>> Why do you think he joined?

>> Well, it was the only way out here in [INAUDIBLE] and a good future for the time. It’s the only way out of [INAUDIBLE] is through the military.

>> And he came back, and he kept on serving in the military?

>> Yes. He came back serving in the military, and he worked as a farmer. They gave him [INAUDIBLE] for the family, and he [INAUDIBLE]. He married a girl in [INAUDIBLE]. That’s where he’s buried right now, in [INAUDIBLE], and a great guy. He was very tough in those days to us. When he came out of the military, he’s a macho man and [INAUDIBLE]. Yeah, he was a tough guy. We were all scared of him.

>> Mm. He had a lot of influence on you.

>> Yes. Oh, yes.

>> Can you spell his name? Can you spell his name?

>> T-A … [INAUDIBLE] T-I-T-A-E, and last name is Fiame, F-I-A-M-E.

>> Well, I hope he knows. I’m sure he knows how proud you were of him, and I’m here to say thank you to him too, so I’m grateful for you for being here to honor his memory, yeah, on behalf of your family. Thank you.

>> I appreciate you coming all the way to California to [INAUDIBLE]. We still have some people that served way before these people in the military, and they talk a lot, these veterans, that’s the only way out [INAUDIBLE] our family, our kids, and after I retire, I came back. I worked for the [INAUDIBLE], so I got out and whatever, and I [INAUDIBLE] for the people of [INAUDIBLE].

>> Mm. Thank you for your service, too.

>> Thank you.

>> My name is Joseph Wagner. I was during [INAUDIBLE] tough years in the Luxembourg Army, and one part of this occupation from back in the Korean War. I engaged in 1950, and I was sent to Korea with the Luxembourg detachment. All the people, they were volunteers. They had all volunteered, and we were attached to a Belgian battalion. We couldn’t afford to have a big force, to have all the logistical facilities, unit command, but we were all the time with Belgians attached to a Belgian company. And so we went, before the war, sent to a Belgian training camp. We did all the training which was useful for fight, for a soldier to be engaged in a war, and after that, we were sent to Korea on a Belgian boat. It was called the Kamina. We went on a Belgian boat, the Kamina, which was not very comfortable. We had very hard time during 6 weeks, being from one sea to the other, and we arrived. We started on the 13th of December, and we arrived in Korea on the 31st of January. It was a long way, yeah? So then we were received in a reception center. We went on training again, what we found out by contact foreign units who had already fought in the Korean War because we came in. Then the Chinese were already in the war. They started in November, and we arrived on the 31st January, and what I feel, we never saw a North Korean soldier. We were all the time engaged with Chinese because during the landing in Incheon, all the Korean units, they were cut off from their bases, and they had no contact from their bases anymore. And, well, our first mission was to fight them, and we had our first mission, was to control the communications of South Korea, and we were stationed in week one. Week one, that was our first mission. We were all the time patrolling the region to be sure that those people would not go making trouble in this area. And after that, we joined the third American division, and we were taken in offensive action that was south of Seoul. As I said, we had to … First crossing was the Han River, and then we went up with American units, with the third division, up to the 38th parallel. And from there, we trenched, our attachment. Then we were attached, the Belgian battalion was attached to the 29th British brigade, commanded by General Brodie. General Brodie, he was a jungle fighter, and when they sent him to Korea, there were only mountains and stones, no jungle at all. And, well, we were attached to this unit, to the 29th brigade, and then came the backlogged [INAUDIBLE] on the 23rd of April, and I was sent out on a patrol from the 12th to the 13th of April, and the Chinese, they were nowhere. Nobody knew where they were, because we had so many patrols during the night. Every unit had to send out patrols, and when I was sent out, I had … My mission was to see if a certain position was occupied, and when I came to this position, the position was occupied. We have a firefight with the Chinese occupation, and then we pulled out. We pulled out. We had one wounded, not by a bullet, but he was … He fell down on a certain position where he hit barbed wire or some kind of defense object. So we came back to our base, and I was called to the brigade’s operation officer, to the [INAUDIBLE] of the brigade, and then I told my story, that we were having contact with this position where we were both sent, and, well, that was very valuable information because 10 days after that, the war started. They started. The Luxembourg detachment was … North of the Imjin River was the other unit, the Luxembourg company, the Luxembourg … The Belgian battalion was north of the Imjin River, and all the other units from the brigade, the [INAUDIBLE], the oilers, the rifles, the [INAUDIBLE], they were south of Imjin River. And then when they attack, well, we had to, first of all, to hurt the position, 23 hours before we could move back, and we were already surrounded by the Chinese, and we were liberated, the help by air strike and by tank patrols. They cut the way from the Chinese, and so we had the chance to pull out, and then we went back. We went back, and during our retreat, we had, from time to time, what I call retreating operations. You had to occupy a position. You had to pull out. You had to occupy another position to make the aggressor that came from time to time on the resistance. And then we kind of came back to, well, south of Seoul. I don’t know the town anymore, and then we were on reserve of the brigade because the brigade was not operative anymore because they had already lost so many. They had lost one battalion. They lost the battalion, was wiped out on their position on the Imjin, and so the brigade was what we call in reserve. And after that, we were patrolling, all the time, the Imjin River, and that is where we had two wounded, two wounded on the night patrol, and we … Because the Chinese had all the time infiltrators across the Imjin River, and they were patrolling the whole region every night, every night. So we had two wounded, and they were evacuated to Japan, and when they had been, the treatment was up, they came back to our position. They came back to our position again. And, well, from there, we came also on a very comfortable situation because we were also reserve of the brigade. And from there, we stayed on the position making patrols on the level of the battalion, what they called a sweep, a coup de ballet, a sweep, to find out where the Chinese were because the Chinese, after our offensive action, they had been thrown out. They had been thrown out. And then of the first of July, we had very big operation, the Luxembourgers with Belgian battalion, Belgian company, and that was, we had to occupy the bridge head across the Imjin River. The bridge head, we had to make our position and when we moved up, we crossed by boat. The Imjin River was very swollen. It was very high, and we crossed by boat, and the British engineer troops, they took us along. And when we came on the other side, there were some people left on the village. They said, “Well, they are 800 men who have just left the position we occupied,” where we should occupy our bridge head. And after that, after we were occupied, we were attacked by enemy fire, by Chinese fire. They were occupied about 800 to 1000 meters in front of us, and we were taken in by fire. They attacked us by fire, and, well, as I was on the side, I had all the time, the possibility, the facility to call for artillery fire, and I knew exactly where they were, and I called artillery fire on their positions, but they were very clever soldiers. They were very, very successful and very skillful. And then a Belgian company was moved up to find out where the Chinese were located, and when they came up to the position, they were attacked by the Chinese, and they had to pull out. And we were on the favorable position to have to help them by protective fire, and all our men, all our, well, platoons started to give supporting fire to the Belgian company, and the company commander, he used to say all the time, “If I would not have had Luxembourg platoon on the 1st of July, my company was wiped out,” and that was a very good compliment to me and to my people. So we had to pull out again. We were the last one section after the other, and I was with the last section, and I was in the last boat being taken over in the Imjin River on the other side. And then the whole battalion, and some supporting elements of the brigade, they all were shooting to protect our reply. So when we were on the other side, well, we were safe again. We were safe because the Chinese, they were not … They had no means to follow, they had no means to go further than what they have done already because the Belgians, they had three or four wounded and so many hurt, so many hit and so many wounded. And then we went up to our position again from where we were located, and then on the … When did we came back? On the beginning of September, we were relieved from our position, and because the idea was to take the first battalion, we were sent in Korea, the Belgian battalion, to be sent home again, and we arrived in Rotterdam on the 2nd of October, 1951, and then we were sent back home again. But there was one more very important incident. Before we were liberated from the position, we had to take part in an offensive action that was what we call a diverging, and we were attacking., We were attacking a certain position, on a certain position, the Chinese. But on another sector, in the middle sector of the whole line, there was a very big attack moving on, pushing the Chinese further to the north. And during the night of … I forget. It was in August, the 7th or the 9th August, we were attacked again during the night by the Chinese, and we were … They were so close to our position that I was afraid that we would not have enough ammunition to fight them for a certain time, but that didn’t happen. The Chinese, they moved back again. We drew them back, and then we came back [INAUDIBLE] Imjin River and then we were called to what we call, to a position where we can have a rest, a resting position, and then we moved up. We handed up all our equipment, and then we were taken to Incheon on the boat, the General McRae, and, I guess, that must be in September. Yes, because we were 1 month on the way up to Rotterdam, and that was the end of the first detachment. We were sent back to Luxembourg, and then the people, they were sent on leave, and I went home to my parents, and that was as far as I had done as a Luxembourg commander and as a Luxembourg soldier during this war.

>> So how many Luxembourgers fought in the war?

>> How many Luxembourgers in the Korean war? At the whole, we were the second detachment that was created, and that was … We had 85 people in the Korean War. Eighty-five Luxembourgers were served in the war, and we have two wounded, and about 52 … No, 32 killed, and about 15 to 14 wounded. That was, for me, as a young soldier, a young officer, was a good experience. A good experience not only to fight another aggressor, but it was also very good experience how to handle people, how to handle people in a critical situations because I had to have confidence in my people, and they had to have confidence in me. I was a leader, and we have never had an incident or trouble that somebody was … I was very glad, and very glad. I had confidence in my people, and that was also a very big satisfaction for me when I came back. I had my people. Some had re-engaged. Six people had re-engaged, but where the other people, they went back to Luxembourg with me on the second of October.

>> You came back, and you volunteered. You said the 85 volunteered.

>> Yeah.

>> Including you, why do you think they volunteered?

>> All the other? Well, some people, they didn’t have a job. Other, they had maybe an adventurous spirit in mind because the adventure was all the time in the air, you can say, because people, well, they are excited, but most of those people, I feel they wanted to be soldier, and I don’t know exactly what were their feelings. If they were in to fight an aggressor and to help the Korean nation, I don’t know. My feeling was that I was engaged to help the Korean nation because they were in a very critical situation, and I was just coming back from school, so I said to myself, “Well, this is a very good occasion, first of all, to find out what is going on as a leader in a war.” And my second motivation was to help the Korean people because what we had heard, that the Korean people, the poor farmers, that they had been attacked by a very well-equipped aggressor. Yes, that was … When I started, I was at school. I didn’t know anything about Korea. I didn’t know where this country was, and I didn’t know what was going on, and finally, we found out that there was a separation between South and North which was because the first President, Syngman Rhee, he made elections in ’48, and when the people of the North, they had no rights because they were already under the domination, under the rule of Nam Il-Sung. Nam Il-Sung was the first president.

>> Premier Sung.

>> They did not take part in this elections, and Syngman Rhee had already in mind that he would be the president of the whole Korea. And, well, it came in another way, and, well, they were really surprised, but the American, I mean, information of this at G2, in this area, they should have known that something is coming up because if you start an aggression, you have to assemble so many units and I don’t know. Well, they had no chance. There were not many American units to block them, and so that was the reason why they had a chance to go so far to presume. They … Well, it was not far away that they had thrown the whole United States … not the United States, the United Nation Army in the sea again. And that was … That would have been a very big operation to have ground again in South Korea, and fortunately, in this few place on the Naktong, fortunately they stopped. They blocked the Chinese offensive, Chinese they were, and that was very … the biggest luck which could happen, and then after the Imjin, the Imjin landing, the Imjin landing by MacArthur where he cut out all the bases, all the units who were cut out, and then they broke out. General Walker, he was commander of the 8th Army. He broke out and then to join the forces who had made the landing, the landing that was at the height of Seoul, because from Imjin, they went in direction of Seoul, and Walker, he broke out in the same way because he had not very much resistance because all the North Korea, they were blocked. They were all cut out, cut up. And so they came together, and then from there on, from this part on, it was the United Nation forces. They were, we say, so many nations had engaged themselves, and at the end, we had 21 foreign nations fighting the Chinese in the Korean War, and that was the lucky part, what I have found, and it was very done well. Came the part when MacArthur was relieved from Ridgway …

>> Truman.

>> Huh?

>> President Truman.

>> No. No, MacArthur, he was liberated from his post or sent out or sent back by Truman, and he was replaced by Ridgway, and from there, from that point on, Ridgway was our operative commander, and he was a very good man. He made many punishment operations, what he called, when the Chinese, when we had attacked or found out some posts that they had taken back so many soldiers of the United Nations. Then he made a punitive operation. He said, “Now we will punish them,” and then he attacked on certain points. Well, I could not say much more about …

>> You must be very proud of …

>> I was.

>> … the Luxembourgers’ contributions.

>> Yes, I was. I was really proud, and I was also, not only to myself that I succeeded in my, in the whole field. I was very proud to have done a very human mission, and I was very glad that when the South Korean War was over, and the people could recover, and I was very much surprised what they have done during the last 60 years. I was so much surprised every time when I was in Korea. I was there already eight times, six or eight times, and I was all the time surprised for also about the kindness of your people. They are so kind and so grateful, very. That’s what is also, when I come back, all the time, they say, “Oh, if you would not be our liberators, if you would not come to Korea, what would happen to us?” And so that was what … And in the museums, Luxembourg is very well represented. In the museums in Korea, Luxembourg is very well represented. And then when after that when we followed, when we are back, we followed that very closely, and we were glad to hear that they have had finally come to agreement to cease fire. Not to … at peace because they are still in war. North Korea and South Korea, they are still in war, and I wonder about the motivation of the South Korean units. They are very good soldiers. They are very, very … Oh, I can’t imagine that the North Koreans, they would not come along far if they were there to attack, but there is one thing. I was in one of those tunnels. They had created eight tunnels under the Imjin battle, under the Imjin River. I was in one of those tunnels, and when they would have attacked again, they were not ready, but they could have attacked it with so many divisions across one tunnel. Well, that would be, what we call the most biggest evil which could have happened to the South Koreans because they found only out that there were tunnels. There were tunnels inside. They could not … They found out that the soldier, he was so vigilant, and he said he heard some noise, and went, “What is that?” And then they looked, after that, in making research through the earth, and then they found a [FOREIGN LANGUAGE], we called it. How do you call that?

>> An empty [INAUDIBLE].

>> An empty hole. And they investigated, and they started to look after that, and then they found the tunnels. That was also very lucky. Oh, because that was … No, they had no good things in mind, and luckily, I was very, very happy that Korea had developed in this manner. Good army, very well organized in the industrial field. Oh, I was very lucky to hear that Korea had recovered.

>> Well, like you said, we are all very grateful to you and your fellow Luxembourgers for your service.

>> Thank you.

>> Thank you.

>> My name is William Longden Kurris. I was born on the 11th of March, 1932. I went to Korea in 1952 in about September time, and I was there then until September and October in 1953, so I was out there when the war was on, and I was out there when the armistice was signed, and the war never finished. >> Do you remember leading up to the armistice? >> Yes, I remember everything while I was out there. I think so. >> Tell us, and what were you assigned to do? >> To give the country freedom. >> Oh, you didn't fight? You were feeding people? >> Pardon? >> What was your position in the army? >> My position was a private. >> Mmm. >> But before we went in the army, I went in an army ... I went in the army when I was 20 years of age. It should've been 18, but I was in college. I was a student studying in Cardiff here, so I didn't go into the army until another 2 years, so that's why I went to Korea then, when I was 20 instead of 18. >> And what did you do in the army? >> I was a private, and I was in the front line, on ... >> So you were ... >> I was on ... >> You saw combat? >> I was ... Yes, I was on guard this one particular night, and it was a cold night. It was Christmastime, and a friend of mine, just before the morning came, he went down the front path of our hill, and there was Christmas cards on the trees, and I got one here. He came back, and he gave it to me. I was on guard, and he gave it to me, and that's from the North Koreans, and it says, "Merry Christmas," and it's even got the signature of the person that put it there. And it's from the Bank of Korea. >> Wow, this is different. >> I don't think there's many of them about. >> No, I have the ones that are not personalized like this, with a name. >> No, it's even signed by them as well, Bank of England ... Bank of Korea. >> Oh, my god, he's saying, "Don't fight in the war." >> Yeah. >> Oh, my gosh. Did you know any from the regiment personally that died? >> Yes, I did. I was with a personnel that was attached to my regiment for the [INAUDIBLE] and he was with me for quite a few months, and I got very friendly with him, and his name was Keith Stanley Osborne, and I was in the same position with him, and we slept almost together in our separate sleeping bags, and he said, "William." He said, "I'm going on patrol tonight." I said, "What for?" He said, "I volunteered to go on the patrol." I said, "What do you want to do that for, Keith?" and he said, "It will be experience." Anyway, he used to show me photographs of himself achieving a cap and gown from university and college and also a photograph of his fiance that also had a cap and gown, and he said that we were going to get married once he come out of the army after 2 years, and I got quite attached to him, and I thought he was a nice chap, a nice friend, and he volunteered to go on this patrol, and I got up in the morning, and I thought, "I wonder where Keith is. He's a long time coming back," so I went down, further down the mountain, to the CO's position, and the CO said, "William." He said, "I'm sorry, but he's been blown to pieces. There was enemy fire when he was on patrol. They all scattered. The patrol scattered, and he stepped on a mine, and he was blown to pieces," and that stuck in my mind, and I had a jaunt to get over that, and to this day, I still keep on remembering that. He was ever such a lovely person, and he was only doing his 2 years, and he wanted to get out, and he was going to get married to his fiance, but then he was at the end of the story, right? >> What was his full name? >> His name was Keith Stanley Osborne, and he was one of the 24 people that was killed for in our 1st Battalion of the King's Regiment, and four was missing. I don't know if any those was survived, the ones was missing. >> So you were part of the King's Regiment, not the Welch Regiment? >> Yes, I was the King's ... in the King's Regiment, but I went out to Korea with the 1st Battalion, with the Welch Regiment, but the Welch Regiment was in Korea then, but they only had 7 months to go, and they would be coming out, so what they did, they transferred all of us when the Welsh went out, and they transferred us to the 1st Battalion of the King's Regiment. >> But why is his name not among the 32? >> Pardon? >> Keith, Grandpa, Keith, his name is not among the 32 because he was British. He was English. >> He was English, yes. He was English. >> Hmm, he wasn't Welsh. >> Because he was born in Oldham. He was born in Oldham, and he was the only child, and he spoke about his mother, but I can't remember if he said anything about his father, but when I came out of Korea, I would have liked to have gone to see her and told her that I was a friend of her son's. But anyway, I ... >> You wanted to go see her? >> Yes, and ... But I never did that. >> Explain this picture. >> That's the cook. I was in the reserve position ... >> Hmm. >> ... when we went in reserve position. >> He's a cook? >> Yes, I was ... >> The little boy? >> No, he wasn't the cook. The cook was ... >> Oh, how about the little boy? >> And in the background there, there's big drums that held the kerosene that kept the all the transport going, the petrol, also the diesel, and after they were done, they made them the cooking ovens. >> How about the little boy? >> Yes, that boy was South Korean. >> He was a house boy? >> I can't remember his name, but he was a good kid, and he was always there to help. >> He was a house boy? >> Yeah. >> There were a lot of the house boys, huh? >> Pardon? >> There were many house boys. >> Yes, that's right. >> Well ... >> Yes, that's all the ships I ... troop ships that I went on to Hong Kong. I did Korean training in Hong Kong. Yeah, that's it. That's me sending them, my mother and father and my two brothers, and my two brothers, they have passed away since. >> Oh ... >> And they was younger than me. They both died of cancer. >> Sorry to say anything. >> And I've had cancer twice, and I'm under the cancer [INAUDIBLE] right now, but [INAUDIBLE] have saved ... give me more than 20 years life. >> Well, I am glad to hear that.

>> Hello, everybody, from Saint Thomas, U.S. Virgin Islands. So you thought that I would go after July 27th. Not really. I’m here in this beautiful island to honor Virgin Islanders who went to fight in Korea. So we just laid a wreath here, and this is the Franklin D Roosevelt Veterans Memorial Park, and while it does not have a Korean War memorial yet, it has a veterans memorial honoring veterans from all five branches. We, of course, laid the wreath here, and I am going to take you to some of my Virgin Islander grandpas, so come on over. Of course, that is the Virgin Islands’ flag, and behind me is the government building. So just to give you a history background, Virgin Islands became part of the U.S. territories in 1917 because, of course, America wanted to ensure that the Caribbean was not going to be under German influence. And it’s a little bit … If you really think, it’s amazing that shortly after Virgin Islanders fought in the Korean War for a country, their newly adopted country, for a country that they didn’t know, Korea. And so here we … Look at this. The Lieutenant Governor was here. Thank you, Lieutenant Governor Potter, who was a veteran himself. Congresswoman …

>> West. West.

>> Representative was here. She came to represent. But … And we just ended the ceremony, so they’re eating lunch, and they’re watching a video about the Korean War. But … Grandpa, can you say hello to the people? To say … These are my grandpas, Virgin Islander grandpas. My grandpa, Larry. Oh, Grandpa Aubrey, perfect!

[ Chatter ]

Well, he says, “Ya,” but …

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> So Grandpa Aubrey is probably one of the most knowledgeable Korean War veterans that I’ve met and had the honor to meet, and he’s a Virgin Islander. However, he fought with the Borinqueneers. Of course, you all know by then …

>> I assisted them.

>> Yes. You assisted them, but he also has a Congressional Gold Medal because, of course, the Borinqueneers were at war …

>> [INAUDIBLE].

>> Exactly. And could you just as a Virgin Islanders …

>> Yeah.

>> To have participated in this effort to defend freedom, not just for Korea, but halted to communism, spread of communism around the world. What does it mean? What does it mean to you after almost 70 years for me to come here and thank you and just seeing your colleagues?

>> Well, it’s built a different level. What we did, maybe how the people of color in the military to be better treated because they saw that we had discipline. We could follow orders. We were well trained. I was the first person of color accepted to the Southeastern Signal School in Fort Gordon, Georgia, in 1952, and it was very intense course. It was the longest in the [INAUDIBLE] course at the time because 34 weeks long. I was perfectly trained in every type of communication of that time to operate, to repair and restore, and that’s what I did in Korea to help you people.

>> I’m not surprised because he is extremely intelligent, and I’m really serious.

>> I’m just blessed.

>> No. Well, you are.

>> The father has blessed me so much.

>> You are blessed with intelligence, and so thank you for making it … coming here, not just today, but to share with me the stories so that I could pass it on and share with other people, and so that your legacy is not forgotten.

>> Yeah. I always try to remember those who were with me and [INAUDIBLE] that didn’t come home and those who came home and were disregarded and never helped and just fell by the sidelines, many of my friends and [INAUDIBLE]. Nobody helped them. I suppose that’s the cold Korean War. I was blessed. I never killed anyone. I was trained. I helped my fellow men as much as I could, and I loved the military. I loved it. I was drafted, and then I re-enlisted for 3 years.

>> That’s amazing.

>> And it made my life great.

>> That’s amazing.

>> I will never say anything about the military.

>> Mm. Well …

>> Some people have different ideas. Some people have probably a difficult time, but I did, but I survived it. I have a grandson who is in the Marines right now.

>> Wow.

>> And I told him …

>> Semper Fi.

>> … if he’s going to be successful, “You must listen, learn and improvise,” and at times he must become a chameleon.

>> Mm, that’s very good advice, everybody. But just want to stop here and say that he mentioned those who didn’t come home like he did, and that is 78. Okay?

>> But those who came home were never treated well, many, many.

>> We just learned today … I learned today that 700 and almost 90 went from Virgin Islands.

>> Yup.

>> 1950, the population here was 26,700. That’s like …

>> Now remember this was from the three Virgin Islands, not only St. Thomas.

>> Oh, yes. Three islands: St. Thomas …

>> St. Thomas, St. Croix and St. John.

>> And so I’ll be in St. Croix tomorrow.

>> I think the most that actually never came home are from St. Croix.

>> Mm, I’ll be going tomorrow.

>> Again, they used them as cannon fodder. You know what that phrase means?

>> Mm-mm. What does that mean?

>> Cannon fodder is when a leader in the military just wants … He needs someone to die to protect more people.

>> Oh.

>> And they do that quite often. That’s what they did with the 65th Infantry. That’s what McArthur did with the 65th Infantry. He use it as a blocking unit and without just sacrificing them to save maybe the [INAUDIBLE] at the time because of the Korean. These are things that people never talk about.

>> And I do want to just say that, that is why war is something …

>> Senseless.

>> … senseless, and we need to continue to defend people. Ooh, it’s raining, so I’m going to go. I want you to shelter, okay? Thank you so much.

>> You do that. I don’t want you to melt.

>> It’s kind of weird because it’s hot, and it’s raining, and it’s very hot, and it’s raining. But I do want to end with … There’s some Caribbean food back there, and I’m hungry, so I’ll be eating that soon. However … Hey. Where are your two other handsome cousins?

>> Over there. Brothers.

>> Yes. Okay.

>> They get some food also.

>> Okay. Come, come. Okay. Name, please.

>> My name is Bubba Benjamin.

[ Chatter ]

>> Ooh, Benjamins. And?

>> Hello. I’m Marcene Benjamin.

>> Okay. Where’s the other Benjamin?

>> One more Benjamin missing.

>> Why are you guys here? Can you just start with that? So we’re going to come a little closer because it’s so loud back there.

>> We came to support our grandfather.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

>> Well, we’ll go over there only because we don’t to block the food. Okay. You came to support your grandpa. Who’s your grandfather?

>> My grandfather is [INAUDIBLE].

>> Okay. Can you honor him by explaining to them why he was here?

>> Well, he fought in Korean War.

>> He fought in the Korean War.

>> He wasn’t even around then. You know what I’m saying?

>> We wasn’t even a thought or anything.

>> He fought for us, and we wasn’t even in existence yet because my mom and dad go back home. He was all the way across the world fighting for America.

>> I know. That’s kind of cool. Do you know … So I called him my grandpa. You heard, right? So technically we’re cousins. Right? Yeah. So I have my new … Ooh. Did you guys do this, red, white and blue?

>> No.

>> Well, I did it.

>> They’re very patriotic. Red, white and blue. Yeah.

>> It wasn’t planned but …

>> My Benjamin cousins. Yes. So thank you for your grandfather’s service, and I hope that you carry for the rest of your life that pride that he served and helped somebody like me to come in existence, not only you, but me, right, and all the Korean people, and we’re very grateful for your grandfather’s service. So I would be remiss if we didn’t show you Mr. Benjamin, so I’m going to take you to him. He doesn’t know I’m coming. Okay. It’s really cool that he has his entire family rolled with him to honor him. Grandpa? Can you just come and wave? Come this way. Sorry to disturb you while you’re eating, but I wanted everybody to see your handsome face because your grandsons just talked about your service in the war and how proud they are.

>> [INAUDIBLE].

>> Mm.

>> [INAUDIBLE].

>> Mm. But I am so glad that you made it back, that you are here, and you have this beautiful family that you raised, who love you and who respect you and are so proud of you as I am grateful to you, so thank you.

[ Chatter ]

And last but not least, look at this. “Proudly we served Virgin Islander Veterans of the Korean War.” Isn’t that awesome? So I just would like to say … I’m going to go this way. I would like to show everybody, ta-da. And give a shout-out to our commander from the American Legion [INAUDIBLE] 90, fearless leader. She called the Lieutenant Governor her younger brother. I said, “Oh, my god. I thought you’re his younger sister.” She looks really good. I’m going to later ask her for her secret, how to keep young.

>> Stay happy.

>> Stay happy. I think so too. And I’m staying grateful and happy. Yeah. I’m just so grateful to be here. That Alpine Security, [INAUDIBLE] Charles giving shout-out over there. I’m just so proud that you have organized and brought all of us here together on this day so that we could remember the Forgotten War and to honor the veterans who are sometimes too often not honored and thanked enough. So again, it was to my surprise I learned that there were a few more veterans in Virgin Islands. Not only 78 died. And that’s … Not to compare numbers, that’s more than Nevada and Delaware. So people back in the states, we sometimes forget the sacrifices made by the people in the U.S. territories. And so again, I am grateful to you. I’m grateful to Alpine Securities. I’m grateful to the American Legion Post and to the government of U.S. Virgin Islands for taking care of the grandpas. I am hoping that there will be a memorial, monument, dedicated at the veterans park to honor their service. So, Shumaro, this has been now an extension of my fantasy 70-plus, 70, 90-day journey across America because it’s my 92nd day, but the journey continued because the Korean War veterans must be remembered forever. So remember727.org. See you tomorrow. Bye.

>> My name is Jolke Rijsdijk. I born in [INAUDIBLE] in 1928 and served in [INAUDIBLE] versus the Korean ... >> Volunteer. >> Volunteer. >> Volunteer >> ... Volunteer in 1950 after 2 years in Indonesia service. I awarded the Medal of Honor from Indonesia and Korea, [INAUDIBLE], the medal of [INAUDIBLE] ... >> United [INAUDIBLE]. >> United Nations. >> [INAUDIBLE] Korean War Medal. >> And I was in Korea in 1950 with about the [INAUDIBLE]. After shooting in the range where there's the American troops, they say to us, "You can come to the front. You are ready for shooting everywhere every day." So we started in 1950 to go to the front line, first to Taegu, afterwards to Suwon and later to [INAUDIBLE]. >> Kusongpo-ri. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE]. >> Above [INAUDIBLE] Hoengsong. >> Hoengsong. >> Hoengsong. >> Hoengsong. >> Hoengsong. >> Hoengsong. >> Hoengsong. >> And [INAUDIBLE] by the Chinese troops. We started to go to help three to five because the Chinese held the North Koreans in force, so on the upper side of the street [INAUDIBLE] died [INAUDIBLE] ... >> Preacher? Preacher? >> [INAUDIBLE]. >> ... priest died, and the paid boss died with 15 other guys, two corporal sergeants and so on. So [INAUDIBLE] little bit. >> What does this mean? Were you an artillerist? Right here. >> Combat rifle. >> Combat rifle. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> Several days on the front line. >> Yeah. >> Ah, oh. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> If you are 90 days in the front line, you get from the Americans the Combat Rifle. It's the one. >> [INAUDIBLE]. >> Means that you have 90 days on front ... >> Ninety days on the front line, yeah. >> ... on the front line. >> Yeah, yeah, yeah. >> Straight? Ninety days straight? >> [INAUDIBLE]. >> Straight? Ninety days straight? >> Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. >> Straight on the line. >> Yeah, yeah. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> Radio man. >> Uh-huh. >> [INAUDIBLE] people I go with in the radio, and afterwards, North Korea, I came back in [INAUDIBLE] 40 years by the [INAUDIBLE] things. >> [INAUDIBLE] things. >> Connections. >> Connections, yeah. Telephone. >> Connections. >> Telephone, ah. >> Radio. >> Wireless operator. >> Oh, wow. >> I was wireless operator ... >> [INAUDIBLE] wired radios. >> ... and made steps in different ranks. >> Wow. In the Armed Forces? >> In the Armed Forces, yeah. >> He stayed there. >> For 40 years? >> Yes. >> For 40 years, yeah. >> Hmm, just like Grandpa [INAUDIBLE]. >> Every 36 years, you get a golden medal. >> Mm. >> Thirty-six years. >> Did he say that he received the Medal of Honor? >> No, that's ... What he's talking about is the medal that you are 36 years in the army. >> Army, 36 years, wow. >> But he stayed longer than that. >> You stayed longer? >> Yeah. >> Wow, so what are you proud about the Dutch in the Korean War? >> Wait a moment. I was in 1998. They came revisit in Korea with my son. >> Mm. >> And he works in Korea with the [INAUDIBLE] ... >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> ... oil platforms, to build oil platforms. >> In Korea? >> In Korea. >> Wow. >> And he brings it to start ... to Africa and all over the world. >> Does he still live in Korea? >> The Koreans platforms. They build in South Korea. >> So he lived in Korea, your son? >> And now he lives here in [INAUDIBLE]. >> Okay. >> But he goes everywhere with the platforms. He brings it back, and then during the start, they test it the [INAUDIBLE]. >> Wow. >> And the platforms bring to the power of the place. >> So you remember serving with many comrades because you were in the army for 40 years, long time. >> Yeah. >> So looking back, Dutch in the Korean War played a very important role, right? >> Yeah, yeah. >> Name couple that you feel are very important for young people to know about Dutch in Korea. >> Oh, yeah. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] Yeah? [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] Yeah? [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> I don't do that, but there are others today do that. They talk in schools, classes, over Korea. >> Mm. >> And now my four [INAUDIBLE] go in ... >> Grandchildren. >> ... go in May to Korea. >> Mm, good. Peacetime ... >> [INAUDIBLE]. Yeah. >> ... to learn ... >> Four. >> ... to learn about the Korean War. >> Going for a week now, Korea. >> Oh, okay. >> It's nice, isn't it? >> Yes. Do you ... Did you go back to Korea? >> No, I not. >> To 1998 ... >> Maybe I go to [INAUDIBLE]. That's far enough. >> You went to Korea with your son ... >> In '98. >> ... in 1998. How about recently? >> No, there were [INAUDIBLE] British over there now. >> Did you go recently? >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] Yeah. >> And what's the last time? In 1998. >> Yeah, yeah. >> I hope you enjoyed it. >> It was very nice ... >> Very nice. >> ... to be there. >> Well, thank you so much for your service. Thank you. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> Yeah. >> [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] >> Oh.